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Changing how we develop Ladybird

ladybird.org

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Re: Changing how we develop Ladybird

#401

Post by Based-A »

dcrazy wrote: post #372
Klonoar wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Fwiw, a non-technical employee in my workplace has begun submitting ai-generated prs to internal repos I maintain & they're of excellent quality, with review feedback graciously received & expediently addressed, so this isn't a matter of the idiots not being technical, it's an attitude problem. It is hard for me to imagine another engineering discipline that would be totally fine accepting work from those who don't…

Man, you must hate those handymen who put up YouTube videos showing how to do basic home maintenance. A truly class-conscious handyman would insist that the homeowner hire them to replace a light switch.

Come on, are you really going to strawman "engineering should be inherently disqualifying" into "so people shouldn't DIY in their own home"? Please try a little bit harder.

Re: Changing how we develop Ladybird

#402

Post by askonomm »

gregoriol wrote: post #275
jaapz wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure if this happened to ladybird, but the amount of junk vibecoded AI-slop pull requests has been putting an immense amount of strain on many open-source maintainers. Reviewing stuff like that is intensely energy draining an most of the time your comments will just be copy-pasted into claude code and the "contributor" will put in 0 effort themselves to try to make the code readable or maintainable. Before AI, be…

Maintainers can also use the exact same tools to help review and validate PRs

AI reviewing AI. Or in other words, having non-deterministic systems review the creation of non-deterministic systems, hoping for a deterministic result. Good luck with that.

Re: Changing how we develop Ladybird

#404

Post by dcrazy »

Based-A wrote: post #401
dcrazy wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Man, you must hate those handymen who put up YouTube videos showing how to do basic home maintenance. A truly class-conscious handyman would insist that the homeowner hire them to replace a light switch.

Come on, are you really going to strawman "engineering should be inherently disqualifying" into "so people shouldn't DIY in their own home"? Please try a little bit harder.

I’m not strawmanning anything. I’m pointing out what I believe to be ridiculous gatekeeping. Software engineering isn’t some holy magic that must be kept from the masses.

I can go on YouTube and get step-by-step instructions on how to safely wire an entire house. In many jurisdictions I would even be allowed to do that.

I can get instructions on how to completely redo a bathroom, down to the studs and up through the waterproofing and tiling. I can get instructions on how to do foundation repair, which might be a bit much for me but can help me ask the right questions to keep the contractor I hired honest.

These are all examples of experts acting as “traitors” to their particular group. In reality, technology enables both specialization and despecialization. Some people try to cling to their specializations and cry “class warfare” when threatened.

Re: Changing how we develop Ladybird

#405

Post by [deleted] »

ATMLOTTOBEER wrote: post #312
asdaqopqkq wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yeah but they could get free token usage from the community

When I contribute to OSS with AI I’m essentially engaging in a donation matching scheme where Anthropic matches 1 to 20 the dollar value invested (usually I can get ~2k of value per month on the $100 plan) in the open source project. So any project that doesn’t accept AI PRs is really missing out on significant investment

[deleted]

Re: Changing how we develop Ladybird

#406

Post by nunez »

Fraterkes wrote: post #66

I've been looking a lot at Godot (another big open source project) PRs lately, and there's been kind of a surge of wholy ai-generated PRs (both code and description). This is agains project-policy, so people creating these PRs usually get mildly told off. What's surprising is that while many submitters take that fairly well, some people get really indignant, essentially calling the maintainers ungrateful. It's kinda…

What would be great is something like Pangram for PRs and issues. Detects if the PR or issue is AI-generated (with multiple checkers for redundancy) so that maintainers can choose to auto-close and PR authors have to at least manually write _something_ before they launch 20k SLOC diffs.

Re: Changing how we develop Ladybird

#407

Post by losvedir »

rurban wrote: post #333
losvedir wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting to see this perspective in the wild. In the age of AI I wonder what "massive value" your PR is bringing to the maintainer. $1 worth of tokens?

[flagged]

This thread is in the context of community PRs in open source projects. So it's not about AI or not, it's about maintainers using AI vs random contributors using AI.

My point is that with AI, where the actual code generation is easy, there's little value in community PR contributions anymore.

Re: Changing how we develop Ladybird

#408

Post by penguinPhilosop »

thegrim33 wrote: post #373
patates wrote: post #131

When AI first happened, I was afraid I was going to eventually lose my job. And while I've been lucky since, many did, and that hurt a lot. When people are losing something to automation, regardless of the economics of the situation, you cheer for the humans, or at least hope that society keeps being fair to those who are most affected. Now I see communities being affected. When you kill PRs, you not only kill the co…

"I was afraid" .. "hurt a lot" .. "I hope that" .. "that feels" .. "I'm conflicted" .. "I'm confused" .. "I'm afraid" .. "human touch" .. "I liked" .. "I feel so stupid". Maybe, just maybe, you're not thinking rationally/logically about the situation and instead are mostly operating on emotion and feelings?

And that is perfectly acceptable if somebody is a human person.

Re: Changing how we develop Ladybird

#409

Post by kjksf »

js8 wrote: post #376

I am old enough to remember what happened to GCC. It was also developed by a closed group of maintainers, because "it couldn't work" as a bazaar-style development. Then EGCS fork happened and became more successful. I think closing contributions (due) to AI will be looked at in a similar way. Forks open to AI will appear, and take over. And people will return to the open model. I think it needs more proliferation of…

You're extrapolating from an exception.

EGCS was created because Cygnus, a company whose business was based on GCC, wasn't getting their patches to GCC, maintained by non-company FSF.

Cygnus outcompeted FSF by so much that FSF folded and made EGCS maintainers new maintainers of GCC.

I just don't see average open source project being forked and improved by so much that it eliminates the original.

This requires 3 rare things to happen:

- the project is important enough

- the project is half-dead

- someone is willing to out-compete the original project

That won't happen to e.g. Laydbird. Yes, it's important but it's making rapid progress and they also use ai, so you can't outcompete them just using ai. It's a full-time project for at least one person (Andreas Kling) so unless you manage to find a band of great, unemployed programmers I don't see how you would compete.

Re: Changing how we develop Ladybird

#410

Post by gpvos »

flaviolivolsi wrote: post #342
patates wrote: post #131

When AI first happened, I was afraid I was going to eventually lose my job. And while I've been lucky since, many did, and that hurt a lot. When people are losing something to automation, regardless of the economics of the situation, you cheer for the humans, or at least hope that society keeps being fair to those who are most affected. Now I see communities being affected. When you kill PRs, you not only kill the co…

Sonos? Did you mean Suno?

Apparently, yes: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48411805
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