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Lee Kuan Yew's Singapore Story (2023)

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Re: Lee Kuan Yew's Singapore Story (2023)

#71

Post by arjie »

andrewstuart wrote: post #2

"I could not ask their sons to fight and die for the properties of the wealthy: Lee Kuan Yew" "I resolved to enable every household to own its own home. If we were going to get the people to take National Service seriously, I could not ask their sons to fight and die for the properties of the wealthy. We worked out a personal savings scheme that allowed them to own an apartment painlessly through instalments over 20…

It’s a pretty good policy: Singapore owns most land and therefore you lose the rent-seeking ability on land. So all homes are leasehold apartments and the government can develop places either by right or by using repurchase agreements with substitution. A unique setup that works given their constraints. In the worst case, you get to hold your apartment 99 years and then the government can take it all back to redevelop it. You don’t get nail houses like in China or California.

Ownership is closer to 90% now or something and the 30% of non resident foreigners will have much lower ownership obviously.

Re: Lee Kuan Yew's Singapore Story (2023)

#72

Post by cholantesh »

nsoonhui wrote: post #50

In this kind of discussion, you cannot disentangle the fate Singapore from Malaysia. The comparison between the two is interesting. When Singapore was squirted out from Malaysia in 1965, it had no natural resources, surrounded by hostile Muslim nations ( though not as bad as Israel, but still), and no one to depend on, except themselves. The Malaysian Ringgit vs Singapore dollars was 1 to 1 back then in 1970s. And no…

>surrounded by hostile Muslim nations ( though not as bad as Israel, but still)

What a bizarre non-sequitur.

Re: Lee Kuan Yew's Singapore Story (2023)

#73

Post by linksnapzz »

JadeNB wrote: post #6
ggm wrote: post #3

Weaponised the court system to repress union backed opposition, despite having been engaged with the union movement in his early years (as I understand it) It is a kind of workers paradise. If you're well behaved and don't shout you get a good education, health system and housing. 95% owner occupied is pretty damn good. Huge dependence on south Malaysia migrant workers shuttling over the bridge every day, so it's "ho…

> Many people would feel safer in Lee Kwan Yew's Singapore than in the USA. Better housing and health policy, less graffiti and street violence. Of all the things wrong with the USA, when picking just two, it seems strange for one of them to be graffiti. I have lived in the USA all my life, in some more and some less urban areas, and even from the people most afraid of cities I have never heard graffiti mentioned as…

Did you know anyone who owned a building that had been tagged?

Re: Lee Kuan Yew's Singapore Story (2023)

#74

Post by ImJamal »

Der_Einzige wrote: post #65
shellfishgene wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Over the following decades, Lee built a strong government that was backed by a competent and virtually corruption-free civil service..." This part of the history, only mentioned in this one sentence, is the most interesting and relevant for other countries, and is really what sets Singapore apart from other countries in the region.

The idea that Singapore isn't corrupt is one of the biggest lies of all time. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c62m7xrd2z0o https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/oct/10/spanish-couple...

I don't think you know what the definition of corruption is. According to Merriam Webster the definition is:

> a: dishonest or illegal behavior especially by powerful people (such as government officials or police officers) : depravity

> b: inducement to wrong by improper or unlawful means (such as bribery); the corruption of government officials

> c: a departure from the original or from what is pure or correct the corruption of a text; the corruption of computer files

> d: decay, decomposition; the corruption of a carcass

As far as I can tell the law was passed by the legislature, the police enforced the law, they weren't bribed to not enforce it or to enforce it.

Seems like the whole system worked correctly, legally and without corruption of any kind.

Re: Lee Kuan Yew's Singapore Story (2023)

#76

Post by watwut »

ggm wrote: post #17
watwut wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In some places, graffiti means "gang activity" as local gangs tag their turf. If you are from such place, then it kinda makes sense to be afraid of graffity. But where I am from, there are two kinds of graffity: - Cool elaborate pictures, usually in "legal zones" walls city dedicated to it. They take time to create, hence preference for legal place and are made by artists. - Less cool stuff created by skinny "edgy" t…

Completely harmless needs contextualising. In gross sense, no: damage to property is not harmless, it has consequences, costs. In personal safety terms sure tagging isn't mugging. If you're down Proudhon's "all property is theft" then graffiti is a kind of tragedy of the commons. Go ahead. Graffiti the Uffitzi, Nelson's column, the Plaka. Stick it to the man!

My point was that there is nothing to fear of. And yes, I said there that they are jerks to owner. Which they are. But, it is not putting anyone in any kind of danger and there is no reason to be scared.

> If you're down Proudhon's "all property is theft" then graffiti is a kind of tragedy of the commons. Go ahead. Graffiti the Uffitzi, Nelson's column, the Plaka. Stick it to the man!

I honestly don't get what are you on about here. I never seen anyone interpret graffiti as some kind of political statement, unless it is swastika or some such. I genuinely doubt any teenager doing graffiti has any kind of idea about any of those names.

Re: Lee Kuan Yew's Singapore Story (2023)

#77

Post by applfanboysbgon »

decimalenough wrote: post #46
jdw64 wrote: post #33

Lee Kuan Yew is praised by Western academia because of 'benevolent authoritarianism' — in other words, the idea that a small elite should rule over the workers. In fact, his policies were authoritarian and dictatorial. Despite Singapore's geographical advantages, Lee's achievement in transforming it into a great financial hub is certainly a testament to his capability. However, when you consider his track record 'Ope…

> And since Singaporeans reportedly have high life satisfaction They do not; in fact, they're the least happy country in SE Asia. https://www.hcamag.com/asia/specialisation/employee-engageme...

The link you cited has nothing to do with "life satisfaction", but rather "job satisfaction", which is a completely different measurement. Singapore has the highest life satisfaction of any Asian country other than Taiwan[1]. Being unhappy with your job obviously does not necessarily translate to being unhappy with your life.

[1]https://ourworldindata.org/happiness-and-life-satisfaction

Re: Lee Kuan Yew's Singapore Story (2023)

#78

Post by teleforce »

rayiner wrote: post #70
teleforce wrote: post #18

>Stamford Raffles stands – according to the plaque attached to the plinth – on the ‘historic site’ where he first landed as an agent of the British East India Company on 28 January 1819 and, thereafter, ‘with genius and perception changed the destiny of Singapore from an obscure fishing village to a great seaport and modern metropolis’. This is one of the greatest lies ever told, that Singapore was an obscure fishing…

That’s a different kind of misleading narrative, the “$PLACE was rich in pre-modern times” narrative. Places decline. Heck, by the middle ages, Rome’s population had dropped to just 30,000.

>Ptolemy’s maps of the world

I can assure you Ptolemy never been to India let alone Singapore.

But hey you just deleted your Ptolemy narrative, are you misleading a narrative?

Ironically although Ptolemy never been to Singapore it's apparently recorded in his book as Sabana [1]. Perhaps that the reason you deleted your Ptolemy entry.

It's also recorded in ancient Chinese record in the 3rd CE Chinese traveller's record describing an island at the same location called Pú Luó Zhōng a transcription of Singapore's early Malay name Pulau Ujong, literally meaning Tip End Island because it's located at the southern most tip of Malaysian Peninsular.

The famous Indian Emperor Chola also said to briefly conquer Singapore/Temasek in the 11th CE [1].

Singapore by any definition for the past two thousands years was not an obscure fishing village. It's always has been a bustling metropolitan with international entreport status. Anyone who said otherwise is lying through their teeth and pushing their own wicked narrative.

[1] Early history of Singapore:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_history_of_Singapore

Re: Lee Kuan Yew's Singapore Story (2023)

#79

Post by mansarip »

hirako2000 wrote: post #40
wahern wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By the time the Europeans arrived Singapore had long since declined: > However, by the time the Portuguese arrived in the early 16th century, Singapura had already become "great ruins" according to Alfonso de Albuquerque. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Singapore How far back and how much context is required for a simple narrative to not constitute lying? And for a narrative about national origin, is it not…

Not sure about Singapore but Malaysia's racism is not complicated. It is discrimination into law. It makes things rather clear. About discourse of course there is not discussion to have.

a major factor is the lack of societal assimilation.

with separate schooling systems, many Malaysians grow up in ethnic silos, which fundamentally hinders national unity even beyond any legal framework

Re: Lee Kuan Yew's Singapore Story (2023)

#80

Post by PearlRiver »

teleforce wrote: post #18

>Stamford Raffles stands – according to the plaque attached to the plinth – on the ‘historic site’ where he first landed as an agent of the British East India Company on 28 January 1819 and, thereafter, ‘with genius and perception changed the destiny of Singapore from an obscure fishing village to a great seaport and modern metropolis’. This is one of the greatest lies ever told, that Singapore was an obscure fishing…

European powers had taken over shipping in that region since the 17th century because their sailing ships were superior to anything the locals built.
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