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The desperation of NYTimes

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Re: The desperation of NYTimes

#311

Post by rurban »

dieselgate wrote: post #97
Centigonal wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an interesting topic. If a company does something you approve of (e.g. do journalism) and something else you disapprove of (e.g. make canceling hard), is there a good way to signal both as a consumer? This is also relevant in the context of companies like Target, which has been boycotted by both sides of the US political spectrum for various reasons.

Good point. I vote with my dollar and do not support Amazon (directly; AWS is unavoidable). But that's your point! I deleted linkedin a few years ago because of the ridiculous volume of emails and their dark patterns about cancellation. NYT is just not a hill i'm willing to die on unlike linkedin, for example

AWS is totally avoidable. Since the felted both my accounts, when I asked them to merge them, I am a very happy non-amazon, non-AWS user.

Same for booking.com or Microsoft which are even more trash.

Re: The desperation of NYTimes

#314

Post by AbstractH24 »

epistasis wrote: post #3

NYTimes is predatory on subscriptions. Over my long lifetime I've subscribed twice, and regretted it both times with intensity. Any place that allows easy instantaneous subscription by a simple web form, but makes you call and talk to a person during limited business hours for cancellation , is a toxic place. I've been told they have stopped this predatory practice due to some newly passed laws or something, but they…

I only subscribe in the summer to the in print version. And actually I find they are quite foolish about it.

Every year I get offered the intro rate again of maybe $5/week. then cancel when it gets too cold to sit outside and read.

Might cost them more to print and deliver it.

Re: The desperation of NYTimes

#315

Post by dangus »

mynameisvlad wrote: post #291
dangus wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They clearly fit within the definition of transactional. They are part of the transaction and they are not an ongoing marketing mailing list. They end completely after 14 days. The author described them as "marketing" but did not disclose the content in any way.

A transactional message is something like "Thank you for signing up" or "Your password was changed" once per transaction. Hence, transactional. Regardless how much they and you want to spin it, this is a 14 day marketing campaign. A single transaction (ie. subscribing) should not result in 14 emails sent. And certainly not one a day. By that logic I can send you unlimited emails because you bought one thing from me o…

No, my logic specifically said that the emails have a defined end and that makes them transactional. You can’t extend my logic beyond my specific boundaries.

I would say I’m not even trying to spin it. For all I know the emails say “here is the user manual for our app” or “thanks for signing up, please enable 2FA as soon as possible.” The author of the blog post never actually detailed the contents of the email.

You define them as marketing emails (without knowing the content) but the company is saying that they are a critical part of the service.

I am basically saying that they have a pretty reasonable legal argument that covers their ass in court because they stop sending them after 14 days and they are directly tied to the onboarding to the service.

How can it be marketing if you already bought the product and people who didn’t buy the product can’t possibly receive the same set of emails?

1. The emails are only sent to new paying customers.

2. They seem to describe how to use the functionality in the service (again, we don’t know exactly because the author won’t post contents, but that’s what the disclaimer message says)

3. They end after 14 days

4. They aren’t sent to prospective customers

Re: The desperation of NYTimes

#316

Post by Starman_Jones »

nailer wrote: post #118
217 wrote: post #52

Also why do they just keep doxing people left and right? Scott Alexander as the most memorable, and then the backlash after they post the backrooms movie creator's house on twitter recently Just very shortsighted behavior

Bari Weiss' resignation letter is a good indication of what happened to the NYT in the last decade: https://www.bariweiss.com/resignation-letter

> truth isn’t a process of collective discovery, but an orthodoxy already known to an enlightened few whose job is to inform everyone else.

Given the events of the past week, this letter really comes across as nothing more than public grandstanding.

Re: The desperation of NYTimes

#317

Post by godshatter »

dataflow wrote: post #103
epistasis wrote: post #3

NYTimes is predatory on subscriptions. Over my long lifetime I've subscribed twice, and regretted it both times with intensity. Any place that allows easy instantaneous subscription by a simple web form, but makes you call and talk to a person during limited business hours for cancellation , is a toxic place. I've been told they have stopped this predatory practice due to some newly passed laws or something, but they…

What a fascinating hill to (with some assumptions about your political leanings) choose to die on. Does the logic go something like "the country may be dying while owing over $100,000 of debt on my behalf, but I'm not gonna let scummy newspapers get in the way with O($100) from my wallet?

It's possible to care about more than one thing at a time.

Re: The desperation of NYTimes

#318

Post by dieselgate »

rurban wrote: post #311
dieselgate wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good point. I vote with my dollar and do not support Amazon (directly; AWS is unavoidable). But that's your point! I deleted linkedin a few years ago because of the ridiculous volume of emails and their dark patterns about cancellation. NYT is just not a hill i'm willing to die on unlike linkedin, for example

AWS is totally avoidable. Since the felted both my accounts, when I asked them to merge them, I am a very happy non-amazon, non-AWS user. Same for booking.com or Microsoft which are even more trash.

I don't host my own stuff there but as a general web user it's unavoidable.

Re: The desperation of NYTimes

#320

Post by nailer »

Starman_Jones wrote: post #316
nailer wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bari Weiss' resignation letter is a good indication of what happened to the NYT in the last decade: https://www.bariweiss.com/resignation-letter

> truth isn’t a process of collective discovery, but an orthodoxy already known to an enlightened few whose job is to inform everyone else. Given the events of the past week, this letter really comes across as nothing more than public grandstanding.

What events?
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