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Ultra-processed foods in the global food system: The role of tobacco companies

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Re: Ultra-processed foods in the global food system: The role of tobacco companies

#191

Post by [deleted] »

irishcoffee wrote: post #147
seethishat wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My problem is it is an experiment (synthetic nicotine that is socially acceptable) and kids are addicted to it. It's like candy. No one knows or complains because the users are not generating smoke, vapor or spit. They just swallow the synthetic nicotine. Yes, people have used tobacco products for a long time. However, they have not sucked on them like candy and swallowed the contents 16 hours a day. They spit, exhal…

Zyn has been around for well over 10 years. We would be seeing this gut thing you talk of by now I would think.

[deleted]

Re: Ultra-processed foods in the global food system: The role of tobacco companies

#192

Post by thinkingtoilet »

cm2012 wrote: post #20
shrubby wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bill Hicks had a good advice to the marketing guys: "kill yourself" so I you're onto something here!

I know its just a joke, but Bill Hicks also constantly marketed himself and branded himself as an anti-marketing comedian. In his mind it was okay to promote yourself as a comedian but not promote your own business.

He didn't take out ads or anything. He lived his life the way he wanted to and spoke his mind. That's not 'marketing'.

Re: Ultra-processed foods in the global food system: The role of tobacco companies

#193

Post by stef25 »

nubinetwork wrote: post #32
breezybottom wrote: post #6

Ultra-processed is a meaningless word used to get media attention. The state of nutrition science is abysmal.

I've heard people say that even bread is ultra processed... I guess we're supposed to go back to eating twigs and berries.

Some bread stays good for 2 weeks, some is moldy after 2 days. There's a reason why.

Re: Ultra-processed foods in the global food system: The role of tobacco companies

#194

Post by the__alchemist »

breezybottom wrote: post #6

Ultra-processed is a meaningless word used to get media attention. The state of nutrition science is abysmal.

This is akin to pitbulls and porn: You know it when you see it, despite the existence of ambiguous cases. I bring this up because your call to specifics is useuful in general. In this case: There are gray areas, but in most cases, it's a useful heuristic. If your food comes in a bright-colored box, advertises as containing "Real [cheese|fruit|etc]" and or is branded with the word "flavor", "Ultra-processed" is a useful categorization.

If your food is something like "Chicken breast", "whole wheat flour" or "Green onions", it's not.

You will be able to find many ambiguous cases, at which point the categorization ceases to become useful. I do not believe this means categorization isn't useful in general.

Re: Ultra-processed foods in the global food system: The role of tobacco companies

#195

Post by harrisi »

Hnrobert42 wrote: post #23

I wonder about the folks who work for tobacco and industrial food conglomerates. Are they not aware of the part they play? Do they rationalize it somehow? Do they just not care? Did they end up there through mergers? Cynical arguments are facile. I'm not interested in hearing that people are dumb or evil. I am genuinely curious how these companies attract talent.

We exist in a world where the exchange of goods and services is inherently oppressive. Some people draw the line at working for Northrup Grumman, some at RJR, some at Meta, some at Starbucks, and some at the local farm. I'm not one to judge where the line should be - I'm not even sure if there is a moral or ethical line that exists in the system.

Re: Ultra-processed foods in the global food system: The role of tobacco companies

#196

Post by mapt »

seethishat wrote: post #137
embedding-shape wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is your problem with them that they're synthetic, or that it's nicotine? Pouched tobacco like that been used for decades in some places in the world, or even without pouches, just making your own ball and sticking the tobacco under your lip. I'm not sure these countries have a higher rate of GI/gut problems than other places, which kind of would invalidate your entire argument here.

My problem is it is an experiment (synthetic nicotine that is socially acceptable) and kids are addicted to it. It's like candy. No one knows or complains because the users are not generating smoke, vapor or spit. They just swallow the synthetic nicotine. Yes, people have used tobacco products for a long time. However, they have not sucked on them like candy and swallowed the contents 16 hours a day. They spit, exhal…

Spitting was necessary because swallowing tobacco represents an immediate, acute food poisoning issue due to the other chemicals present. It's also all sorts of cancerous, including to the mouth, also due to those other chemicals.

We developed, in Snus, an apparently cancer-free chewing tobacco. We developed, in Zyn, a cancer-free, hygienic chewing tobacco with fewer GI issues. We developed, in e-cigarettes / vapes, a cancer-free, COPD-free, carbon monoxide free cigarette.

These should be regarded as public health miracles even if there remain some symptoms of partaking. If 80% of the population is addicted to Zyn or vapes but there are no smokers, you get far better health outcomes than a situation where 20% of the population are smoking and 5% are chewing.

Re: Ultra-processed foods in the global food system: The role of tobacco companies

#197

Post by cm2012 »

moritzwarhier wrote: post #174
cm2012 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those things you said sound evil but they're really not. Finding hyper-palatable food is just another word for finding stuff people want to eat if you're making food, something that's tasty. Spending billions on marketing? Marketing is how you connect to what customers want. I'm a professional marketer, right and it's really really hard. If I was trying to sell food, I'd try different positioning statements, differen…

Optimizing for food that costs the least in ingredients, at the same time is provenly unhealthy, and has addictive properties, is a totally valid strategy for a free market but it's far from "feeding the world". And better accessibility of unhealthy food in comparison to healthy food is a reality for many people, especially when they cannot outsource the act of buying and preparing food to others, including family, o…

Every kind of food is currently being made: healthy fresh food, processed foods of various types at all different price ranges. People have options to buy what they want and that's a good thing.

Re: Ultra-processed foods in the global food system: The role of tobacco companies

#198

Post by breezybottom »

margalabargala wrote: post #178
breezybottom wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? You're on the side of RFK Jr and the MAHA nutjobs. This is the kind of "science" they believe in.

Sometimes among large groups of people there are varying opinions, you'll see this more as you grow up. The american right wing is one such group.

So it's not as simple as "questioning bad science makes you a conservative". Glad we agree.

Re: Ultra-processed foods in the global food system: The role of tobacco companies

#199

Post by thesmtsolver2 »

gaiagraphia wrote: post #127
cm2012 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know its just a joke, but Bill Hicks also constantly marketed himself and branded himself as an anti-marketing comedian. In his mind it was okay to promote yourself as a comedian but not promote your own business.

There's a different between 'promotion' and 'bait and switch'. There's also the matter of the externalities of the products you're promoting. If Hicks marketed his shows as life-changing experiences which'll give you a bigger dick, then just ran normal stand-up, it'd be right to criticise him. Just as it's right to criticise companies who claim to sell 'food', show ads of nice happy, healthy families, and throw buzzw…

You are doing a bait and switch now comparing all ads to bait and switch.

Re: Ultra-processed foods in the global food system: The role of tobacco companies

#200

Post by stef25 »

spacebacon wrote: post #8

They learned addiction and exploited sugar, fat, and salt with the rest of them.

You can look at these kind of foods like illegal drugs. Not biggie in moderation but if you overdo it then here come serious health problems.

I'm 100% convinced that people who are morbidly obese not getting a second serving or not getting those extra nuggets is as hard as a drug addict not picking up a needle or straw or a lighter. You fucked up.

EDIT take the cost on society and obesity must be more expensive than that of all drugs combined. Something like half of the US now ?

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