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Ultra-processed foods in the global food system: The role of tobacco companies

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Re: Ultra-processed foods in the global food system: The role of tobacco companies

#141

Post by breezybottom »

svpk wrote: post #119
oytis wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How should using processes not used at home make something harmful? If we make the same processes commonly available to use at home, will these foods become less harmful? I know there is science around it, but the very concept looks very unscientific, it's almost like talking about "unnatural food"

The idea is that you could ban any set of "unhealthy" inputs and give the big food companies some time and they'll come out with something just as unhealthy that complies with your rules. The underlying issue is some mix of what industrial processes make possible combined with food scientist working with taste test panels to hyper optimize food. When you spend all this time and effort trying to create a snack where p…

>the actual answer seems to be that when you use industrial processes and science to min-max cost and palatabillity you always end up with junk. Whereas when you cook food with typical home methods and ingredients you don't.

That's not an answer at all. You need to explain why an industrial mixer would create less healthy food than a kitchen mixer. The scale shouldn't matter.

Re: Ultra-processed foods in the global food system: The role of tobacco companies

#142

Post by toasty228 »

Arkhaine_kupo wrote: post #123
toasty228 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Supermarket breads are trash, the first thing I found in wallmart's website: > Unbleached Enriched Flour (Wheat Flour, Malted Barley Flour, Niacin, Reduced Iron, Thiamin Mononitrate, Riboflavin, Folic Acid), Water, High Fructose Corn Syrup, Contains 2% or Less of Each of the Following: Yeast, Wheat Gluten, Salt, Soybean Oil, Dough Conditioners (Contains One or More of the Following: Sodium Stearoyl Lactylate, Calcium…

https://preview.redd.it/yodjulpnhclf1.jpeg?width=1240&format... this is the chemical composition of a strawberry my phd-less grandfather will have to now avoid his favourite dessert :(

> ackchyually everything is made of things, checkmate

ok, well continue eating dog shit products designed by megacorps for the sole purpose of profit maximisation then, what do you want me to tell you? We've been eating veggies and fruits for hundred millions of years without any problem but 4 decades of processed food skyrocketed all of our lifestyle related health issues.

Re: Ultra-processed foods in the global food system: The role of tobacco companies

#143

Post by 9rx »

toasty228 wrote: post #47
cm2012 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes it seems like the authors of this article are implying this is bad? I mean ultra-processed is a meaningless term but generally processed food lasts longer, is less perishable, often cheaper, etc.

> ultra-processed is a meaningless You'd find plenty of definitions if you looked for them > generally processed food lasts longer, is less perishable, often cheaper, etc. Go ahead and list the negatives too lmao... what do you think the additives meant to prevent living organism from developing on the food do in your gut for example ? https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11901572/ Ultra processed food benefit co…

> You'd find plenty of definitions

Exactly. Terms that are meaningful have one generally accepted definition. When everyone and their brother are coming up with their own pet definitions, that is when a term is considered meaningless.

Re: Ultra-processed foods in the global food system: The role of tobacco companies

#144

Post by v64 »

gwbas1c wrote: post #129
embedding-shape wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is your problem with them that they're synthetic, or that it's nicotine? Pouched tobacco like that been used for decades in some places in the world, or even without pouches, just making your own ball and sticking the tobacco under your lip. I'm not sure these countries have a higher rate of GI/gut problems than other places, which kind of would invalidate your entire argument here.

The problems with chewing tobacco are well-known. BTW, colon cancer is rising among men in their 40s, and there is no known reason why.

Those problems are because of the tobacco. Zyn packets et al are just nicotine, and nicotine itself has not been shown to be a carcinogen.

Re: Ultra-processed foods in the global food system: The role of tobacco companies

#145

Post by moduspol »

tornikeo wrote: post #73

Tobacco companies should've just announced that "This new tobacco we made is super good, but too dangerous to release, so we are smoking it ourselves and giving it to only the select C-level smokers"

I heard this new tobacco is a national security threat. You don't want China to be making it, do you?

Re: Ultra-processed foods in the global food system: The role of tobacco companies

#146

Post by toasty228 »

SauntSolaire wrote: post #118
toasty228 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ultra-processed is a meaningless You'd find plenty of definitions if you looked for them > generally processed food lasts longer, is less perishable, often cheaper, etc. Go ahead and list the negatives too lmao... what do you think the additives meant to prevent living organism from developing on the food do in your gut for example ? https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11901572/ Ultra processed food benefit co…

> You'd find plenty of definitions if you looked for them Having a greater number of competing definitions does not generally make a term more meaningful. (Take "art" for example.)

Who says they're competing?

Re: Ultra-processed foods in the global food system: The role of tobacco companies

#147

Post by irishcoffee »

seethishat wrote: post #137
embedding-shape wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is your problem with them that they're synthetic, or that it's nicotine? Pouched tobacco like that been used for decades in some places in the world, or even without pouches, just making your own ball and sticking the tobacco under your lip. I'm not sure these countries have a higher rate of GI/gut problems than other places, which kind of would invalidate your entire argument here.

My problem is it is an experiment (synthetic nicotine that is socially acceptable) and kids are addicted to it. It's like candy. No one knows or complains because the users are not generating smoke, vapor or spit. They just swallow the synthetic nicotine. Yes, people have used tobacco products for a long time. However, they have not sucked on them like candy and swallowed the contents 16 hours a day. They spit, exhal…

Zyn has been around for well over 10 years. We would be seeing this gut thing you talk of by now I would think.

Re: Ultra-processed foods in the global food system: The role of tobacco companies

#148

Post by somenameforme »

JButtermilk wrote: post #64
shrubby wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bill Hicks had a good advice to the marketing guys: "kill yourself" so I you're onto something here!

I think marketing is fine until it turns into lies. Reaching people to sell them your product should not be an issue. That, with misrepresentation and misleading claims is an issue.

I think manipulating people is a broader surface area to describe the problem. Most people think marketing is about just showing a product, but it's not. Marketing is about psychologically manipulating people and creating subconscious associations within peoples' minds using deeply researched strategies and techniques. See stuff like the Elaboration Likelihood Model. [1]

The next time you're watching a commercial from some company renowned for marketing success (Apple, Coke, etc) pay attention to how much time in the ad the product is in any way mentioned, and how much is... 'other stuff.' That other stuff is the point of the ad, the actual product is largely irrelevant. The world would be vastly better without large scale marketing.

[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elaboration_likelihood_model

Re: Ultra-processed foods in the global food system: The role of tobacco companies

#149

Post by 3form »

cm2012 wrote: post #37
geye1234 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's astonishing to me that advertising and marketing is accepted as normal. The majority of B2C marketing is designed to manipulate people's emotions so that they act against their interests, in order to make you money. It's really disgusting.

I don't know if you know this, but all Facebook ads as well as TikTok ads and so on are public on the internet. You can go to Facebook Ads Library. https://www.facebook.com/ads/library/?active_status=active&a... And in doing so you can see that what you're saying is actually not true. Look up any random advertiser and you'll see that it's pretty uncommon for ads to be based around insecurity. Almost always it's on ba…

Who said anything about insecurity? "I like this thing" (which I don't need) is also an emotion.

Re: Ultra-processed foods in the global food system: The role of tobacco companies

#150

Post by bondarchuk »

cm2012 wrote: post #37
geye1234 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's astonishing to me that advertising and marketing is accepted as normal. The majority of B2C marketing is designed to manipulate people's emotions so that they act against their interests, in order to make you money. It's really disgusting.

I don't know if you know this, but all Facebook ads as well as TikTok ads and so on are public on the internet. You can go to Facebook Ads Library. https://www.facebook.com/ads/library/?active_status=active&a... And in doing so you can see that what you're saying is actually not true. Look up any random advertiser and you'll see that it's pretty uncommon for ads to be based around insecurity. Almost always it's on ba…

That's actually really interesting about all ads being public like that! Didn't know that. Is it because of some regulatory requirement or just because it's useful business wise?

(anyway many of the coca cola ads you linked have some theme of togetherness and community, which can be said to prey on people's insecurities around being lonely. Drink this sugar+caffeine solution and you'll be less lonely. Yes you start to sound like a paranoid schizophrenic when analyzing ads like that but that is how it works.)

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