Silicon Valley's dirty secret - age bias • Hacker News Board

Re: Silicon Valley's dirty secret - age bias

#241

Post by Tsagadai » Wed, Nov 28, 2012, 3:58 AM UTC

jsaxton86 wrote: post #90

krakensden wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've worked with developers in their fifties- they're scary good.

I've also worked with developers in their fifties who are awful. Age bias is awful, and I have worked with a lot of older developers who know their stuff and are extremely competent, but the idea that 25 years of experience automatically makes you a better programmer is wrong. Good developers are able to learn and adapt quickly, and often older developers can't do that.

I find there are less awful developers over 40 than under 40. Eventually your reputation catches up with you and it is very difficult to hide decades of incompetence.

Re: Silicon Valley's dirty secret - age bias

#242

Post by pbiggar » Wed, Nov 28, 2012, 4:01 AM UTC

debacle wrote: post #78

LastManStanding wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This should have happened long ago, and from what I have heard, Y-Combinator would be the best place to start.

You're making serious accusations against an individual and a company based solely on things you have read about on the Internet or heard anecdotally. Wake up. Discrimination is not cut and dry, law is not cut and dry, and reality is not cut and dry.

Best comment of the whole damn thread.

Re: Silicon Valley's dirty secret - age bias

#243

Post by cpher » Wed, Nov 28, 2012, 4:05 AM UTC

jlgreco wrote: post #163

rayiner wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's absolutely hilarious about it is that it's not the same frat culture that typifies Wall Street. It's the nerd frats.

Despite being a "nerd", I think the more traditional sort of 'frat' is actually a lot more inviting. Without the video-game nonsense I think it is actually more accepting of lifestyles that don't involve primarily a couch. The thought of spending my own freetime playing video-games is revolting to me, I associate it with depression and loneliness (yes, online or otherwise multiplayer games too). It really seems like…

It's not an all-or-nothing choice, though. I've had an Xbox 360 for years, and when my kids were born/adopted, I barely touched it. I hate playing against the knobs on Xbox Live, so I just stick with the single player stuff, or find friends to explore maps and blow stuff up. Very immature, I know. But it's fun. Look at my post up above...My Xbox is an early generation and I still hardly play it because I have better things to do most of the time.

I'm not sure what preconceptions you have about "gamers" are, but from what I know, most gamers are in their 30's and have lives outside of video games.

I wouldn't call myself a "gamer", as per your definition, but I've loved playing video games since the early 80's, which might not register with your experience. I'm an ordinary guy with a beautiful wife and kids. Not sure what your beef is.

Re: Silicon Valley's dirty secret - age bias

#244

Post by dsymonds » Wed, Nov 28, 2012, 4:15 AM UTC

jiggy2011 wrote: post #83

It's interesting to compare with other professions. I was out for drinks recently with some people who were programmers as well as others some of whom were doctors. The mean age was probably about 27. A 27 year old developer is a grizzled vet whereas a 27 year old doctor is considered a noob at the start of their career.

The 27 year old developers probably only thought they were grizzled veterans.

Re: Silicon Valley's dirty secret - age bias

#245

Post by herdrick » Wed, Nov 28, 2012, 5:06 AM UTC

LastManStanding wrote: post #218

jiggy2011 wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has he said so in an essay? On a HN post? To YC founders in person?

See comment above. There was another interview or blog post where he talked about his preference for young people more extensively, but I can't find it. Do you happen to know how many people over 50 have been accepted into Y-Combinator?

You're thinking of someone else. Paul has corrected people here several times when they say something like, "I'd like to apply to YC but I'm X years old.". Usually his reply is approximately "We've funded several people ten years older than you.". I think the oldest YC funded founder is 50 something. So far.

Re: Silicon Valley's dirty secret - age bias

#246

Post by photorized » Wed, Nov 28, 2012, 5:25 AM UTC

Shirts and sneakers are OK, but the eyelid lift part is a bit sad.

Re: Silicon Valley's dirty secret - age bias

#247

Post by spullara » Wed, Nov 28, 2012, 5:33 AM UTC

Honestly I have never seen ageism. Only people that didn't continue to learn everyday not getting hired. BTW, I am old.

Re: Silicon Valley's dirty secret - age bias

#248

Post by rumcajz » Wed, Nov 28, 2012, 5:51 AM UTC

That's interesting. How can one do that and still claim that "we are hiring the best 1% of engineers"?

Re: Silicon Valley's dirty secret - age bias

#249

Post by Pwnguinz » Wed, Nov 28, 2012, 8:34 AM UTC

jaggederest wrote: post #174

quotemstr wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> people who become adults after smart phones were commonplace have an entirely different worldview. Care to elaborate?

As an example: It's entirely possible that they've never been lost. With a gps-enabled smartphone and mapping, that whole concept goes away.

Anecdotally, I find myself now to be lost more often than prior to. Before GPS/Mapping on smartphones became common place, I would acquaint myself very well with where I was going, whereas now I'm much more care free about it--but on the off chance my destination has no signal, or the phone's battery dies on me, I'm much more screwed.

Re: Silicon Valley's dirty secret - age bias

#250

Post by PeterisP » Wed, Nov 28, 2012, 10:33 AM UTC

jpdoctor wrote: post #85

finnw wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can get sued for firing someone, but I'm pretty sure you can't get sued for declining to invest in a company (that would be very scary indeed.)

> but I'm pretty sure you can't get sued for declining to invest in a company Try this for example: "Our VC firm does not invest in companies with black founders. We looked at the data, and companies with black-founders have a measurably lower ROI." Are you still pretty sure ?

Yes. There are specific laws that punish hiring decisions allegedly made because of race, gender, etc. There are laws that require government entities to treat all citizens equally, regardless or race. There may be (I'm not a lawyer) specific laws that forbid discriminating walk-in customers in stores or passengers in transport services. But, AFAIK, there are no laws that forbid having a principle of not ever buying (or investing) from companies run by black CEO's - it may (and should) be a PR disaster, but it's legal. There definitely are no laws that prohibit general discrimination for an unspecified purpose not specifically listed (such as hiring, etc).

If I have missed such a law, please do enlighten me.

As far as I know, I may pass a company directive that we'll only buy stuff from companies run by homosexual mormons born on friday the 13th; and that will be just as legal as those companies that have declared that they will only buy stuff from local companies. I may create an investment fund, stating that it will only invest in companies with Christian (or Islamic) values and it will be just as legal as creating an investment fund, stating that it will not deal with companies allegedly involved in bribery.