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I'm skeptical about efforts to revolutionize schooling

scotthyoung.com

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Re: I'm skeptical about efforts to revolutionize schooling

#141

Post by ghaff »

abdullahkhalids wrote: post #95
bwhiting2356 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hard to convince kids why they should learn advanced abstract math, beyond what is necessary to calculate the tip on a restaurant bill. The number of high school students who will use advanced math beyond high school is very small, but those that do will have high impact, which is both in society's interest and their own interest as high earners. The kids that study and apply themselves, I don't think it's so mu…

I will bet that the number of adults who ever engage in coloring or painting as adults is extremely small. Probably less than the number of full time scientists, engineers, finance professionals etc. Yet no one complains that we are forcing students to do art in school, even when many students don't particularly like doing art. Why? Because we recognize that developing general artistic ability in humans is important,…

Never had art in school.

Did do writing although a lot was extracurricular.

Re: I'm skeptical about efforts to revolutionize schooling

#142

Post by pianopatrick »

wjamesg wrote: post #117
pianopatrick wrote: post #99

Ya know, one way we could "revolutionize schooling" that would make sense for our modern world is to set up schools that make sense when both parents work. Like have school open from 7 - 6 with the same amount of teaching but lots more recess so that parents can drop their kids off in the morning and pick them up after work. Also, have schools available in the summer so parents can drop the kids off while they go off…

7-6? Why even have kids

The kids don't have to be there the whole time. Just the school is open. So you can have school open at 7 for dropoff and the kids can play in the yard but school actually starts at 8:30 or 9:00. Same at the end, classes might end at 3:00 or 4:00 but the school is open with supervision until 6:00 and the kids can play in the yard until the parents come get them.

Re: I'm skeptical about efforts to revolutionize schooling

#143

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

fooo1882992 wrote: post #73
PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> just like brushing your teeth leads to better health outcomes This is very context dependent. If you grow up surrounded by a typical western/industrial/post-industrial diet, then yes, it almost certainly does. But you could also change the food environment. Hopefully the analogy/metaphor that connects this to schooling is reasonably obvious.

So... We need to go back to living in the jungle? You go do that then. Enjoy your slow death from malaria.

Where did I say anything about living in the jungle?

The food choices having nothing to do with the jungle, but rather: regular, significant consumption of highly processed and most significantly sweetened foods. There were plenty of people in the world before the widespread adoption of sugar as cooking ingredient whose dental health would likely not have been improved by brushing, and they didn't live in "the jungle" but places like ... America, and Japan, and India and ... basically the entire planet.

Re: I'm skeptical about efforts to revolutionize schooling

#144

Post by ChiperSoft »

pianopatrick wrote: post #99

Ya know, one way we could "revolutionize schooling" that would make sense for our modern world is to set up schools that make sense when both parents work. Like have school open from 7 - 6 with the same amount of teaching but lots more recess so that parents can drop their kids off in the morning and pick them up after work. Also, have schools available in the summer so parents can drop the kids off while they go off…

You expect teachers to work 12 hour days on top of being paid garbage?

Re: I'm skeptical about efforts to revolutionize schooling

#145

Post by bluGill »

SubmarineClub wrote: post #86
fasterik wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It turns out that when you level the playing field, girls do better than boys. I don't think it's about the "girl power" nonsense, it's about the ability to sit down, focus on something, and produce work that meets a certain standard of achievement. I would say the more harmful slogan has been "you're okay just the way you are." I'm not saying we go back to harsh discipline and abuse, but there has to be a middle gro…

> It turns out that when you level the playing field, girls do better than boys. Why is it that when boys/men where outperforming and out-earning women, people were willing to move heaven and earth to correct this terrible injustice, but now when outcomes have reversed (for years at this point) it's considered acceptable to say "Welp, that's just how it goes. Boys just aren't good enough." Hmmm...almost like, it's no…

Until someone can show a real biological difference we should level the playing field.

We do know boys mature later which may be reason to not level the field completely, but we should still not allow that as an excuse.

If someone shows another difference I will have to think in depth about the details before I can comment.

Re: I'm skeptical about efforts to revolutionize schooling

#146

Post by bluGill »

madrox wrote: post #77
HDThoreaun wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the issue with this take imo is that one of the primary goals of schooling is to socialize kids and force them to interact with others they dont get along with. There needs to be some conflict among the students so that they can gain and practice conflict resolution skills that are absolutely vital. I agree that the current system can be improved, it's just not clear how.

My issue with saying socializing is one of the primary goals is that schools leave kids to figure it out on their own. Hard to know how schools are performing at that goal when it is going unmeasured.

Schools do better than home schooling. Those kids constantly do great on tests but it doesn't take long to figure out they are lacking socially.

I don't know how to teach socialization other than kids figure it out, but I'm open to the idea.

Re: I'm skeptical about efforts to revolutionize schooling

#147

Post by AlotOfReading »

hunterpayne wrote: post #105
AlotOfReading wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you spend any amount of time listening to people complain about what is or isn't taught, you'll quickly discover that most things they hate aren't taught and the things they wish were taught are, at least in some form. Much of the rest is based on either outdated or misunderstood knowledge/beliefs.

My kid was given a hacky political axis test in school. Then all the kids were lined up in a row based upon the test results and the teacher then grilled the kids on the right side as to why. This is happening in a public school funded by taxes. Gaslighting parents about their own children's experiences isn't a great idea. PS I know this is one event, it was also part of a consistent pattern of similar events. The sc…

If it's not clear, my post was about school curricula.

Re: I'm skeptical about efforts to revolutionize schooling

#148

Post by idoh »

Schools are nominally about learning but actually about a whole of other stuff -- it's a non-goal to get better or revolutionize it, so that's the main blocker for actually getting better at teaching students.

Parents want their kids to get into college, admins want to keep the parents at bay, teachers are trying to get by, unions want teacher protections, etc. There's no QBR where people look at the stats and iterate.

Re: I'm skeptical about efforts to revolutionize schooling

#149

Post by pianopatrick »

ChiperSoft wrote: post #144
pianopatrick wrote: post #99

Ya know, one way we could "revolutionize schooling" that would make sense for our modern world is to set up schools that make sense when both parents work. Like have school open from 7 - 6 with the same amount of teaching but lots more recess so that parents can drop their kids off in the morning and pick them up after work. Also, have schools available in the summer so parents can drop the kids off while they go off…

You expect teachers to work 12 hour days on top of being paid garbage?

You don't need the same teacher all day. You can have someone who watches the kids in the yard in the morning before classes start and a different person who watches after classes, and neither of those people necessarily need to be full class teaching teachers.

Re: I'm skeptical about efforts to revolutionize schooling

#150

Post by bawolff »

nhinck2 wrote: post #122
fhe wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

based on your description, one reasonable way to 'revolutionize' school might simply allow people (who don't want to be there) to leave.

There has been a shift towards too many jobs requiring a tertiary education. But good luck reversing that trend.

So? People can decide if they want the job enough to participate in the degree or not.
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