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How Fear and Social Pressure Are 'Overarming' the U.S.

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Re: How Fear and Social Pressure Are 'Overarming' the U.S.

#21
post #8

Anecdotally, a lot of politically far left people I know have gone quiet on the firearms issue. It seems like the state of the country has 2A suddenly making more sense to a lot of people.

Sure, jack boot thugs killing a fee people in broad daylight with a government sanction tends to do that. But I’d rather we not have the brown shirts in the first place…

Re: How Fear and Social Pressure Are 'Overarming' the U.S.

#22

Do they ever state the social optimum level of fun ownership? I can take them at their word they it’s non-zero, but I’d guess it’s orders of magnitude less than the current rate.

I think the optimum level changes based on whether or not citizens are being actively brutalized by an authoritarian government and their police forces en masse. When that happens, the optimum level is a lot and when it's not happening, the optimum level is probably orders of magnitude less. Unfortunately, we can't accurately predict when these things will happen.

Re: How Fear and Social Pressure Are 'Overarming' the U.S.

#23
post #10

Boy, the game of telephone on the way to HN is really amazing. Paper: We make a stylized model that uses observed social networks in Honduran gangs and varies some parameters to match the US to see and it aligns with some things regarding how we exceed the socially optimal balance (based on the params). PR release: The researchers describe in Science Advances how individual incentives to buy firearms can lead to a ph…

> PR title: How Fear and Social Pressure Are ‘Overarming’ the U.S. > HN title: Fear and Social Pressure Are ‘Overarming’ the U.S the discrepancy between these two is because HN automatically strips "how" from the beginning of titles.

Which is usually reasonable, because if you are describing “how x happens” you are claiming that x happens. It doesn’t make a real difference here.

Re: How Fear and Social Pressure Are 'Overarming' the U.S.

#24
post #10

Boy, the game of telephone on the way to HN is really amazing. Paper: We make a stylized model that uses observed social networks in Honduran gangs and varies some parameters to match the US to see and it aligns with some things regarding how we exceed the socially optimal balance (based on the params). PR release: The researchers describe in Science Advances how individual incentives to buy firearms can lead to a ph…

Comic: "The Science News Cycle"

https://phdcomics.com/comics/archive.php?comicid=1174

Re: How Fear and Social Pressure Are 'Overarming' the U.S.

#25

The whole concept of optimal levels of firearms ownership should have been expanded upon, as this premise is probably new to the audience and a cornerstone of their entire research.

Their cohort studies are across three completely different populations. I would be willing to listen to an argument that for some specific population there’s a firearm ownership level above which there are diminishing safety returns, but I find the idea that this same level would hold across wildly different populations absurd

Re: How Fear and Social Pressure Are 'Overarming' the U.S.

#26

Do they ever state the social optimum level of fun ownership? I can take them at their word they it’s non-zero, but I’d guess it’s orders of magnitude less than the current rate.

In the US, the average gun owner has something like 3-5. An actual enthusiast will have tens or hundreds. It's the people who own exactly one that you need to watch out for the most.

Re: How Fear and Social Pressure Are 'Overarming' the U.S.

#27
post #5

Are people who are armed because they enjoy shooting or hunting supposed to exist in this research model or not?

Does it matter? Control of you life is your basic human right. Firearms are the great equalizer.

"Might makes right," you know?

I personally control my life by spending almost all of my income, after bills, towards expanding the elaborate tower-defense-like automated weaponry on my plot of land. If I must leave my fort, I always drive my T-34 into town (I'm saving up for a Sherman).

If anyone is interested in their own tank, this is a fun little listicle of what is possible: https://militarymachine.com/military-tanks-for-sale

Re: How Fear and Social Pressure Are 'Overarming' the U.S.

#29
> we find that a socially optimal level of ownership is often greater than zero

I suppose one could model this in some way. But as a pacifist, vegan and never owner of firearms, I’m genuinely clueless as to how this could be. Is the social optimality here a function possessing weapons for hunting, which can be a social activity?

Re: How Fear and Social Pressure Are 'Overarming' the U.S.

#30
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it matter? Control of you life is your basic human right. Firearms are the great equalizer.

Isn’t there a massive body of research that indicates gun ownership is less safe on average that non-ownership? Ie the chance of accidental shooting of family/friends is high enough to offset any benefit (on average across the US)?

Teen suicide in households with a gun is a very interesting stat to bring up for this. Suicide in general is higher for gun owners, which can be handwaved away as “that’s my right”. But suicide is higher for children of gun owners? That seems like a tough risk to justify.
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