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Americans Have Grown Dramatically Anti-Data Center

gizmodo.com

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Re: Americans Have Grown Dramatically Anti-Data Center

#21

Post by xg15 »

db48x wrote: post #19
pylua wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not against data centers, but they need to come with their own clean power supply, and export minimal pollution to its neighbors . If you can’t provide that it’s not worth the downsides for the community.

Small power plants are less efficient and more polluting than larger ones. They are also harder to inspect and certify on a regular schedule. A single 1GW power facility in your county is much better than 10000 small power plants, one for each business.

True, centralized power generation using a grid that can carry that load would be the best solution. But in absence of that, the alternatives only seem to be between inefficient decentralized green and inefficient decentralized non-green solutions. In that case, I'd opt for the green ones. (Or of course: no datacenter at all)

Re: Americans Have Grown Dramatically Anti-Data Center

#22

Post by xg15 »

_23sd wrote: post #9

I have several friends who used to lament the loss of manufacturing jobs as a ticket to the middle class, but now say they're going to protest a proposed data center, which feels a bit ironic. None really link it to AI's social impact like Gizmodo does here, the argument always starts with "I don't understand what they need a data center for" (often genuinely wanting me to explain it since I work with computers) and…

I think locals (unlike economists apparently) are also thinking what is produced in particular in those facilities.

Yes, a chip fab might in fact be more of an environmental hazard, but at least the benefits of the products are clear.

I think this even used to be true with data centers before AI: It's sort of easy to see the need for one if you're hosting your own website in one or at least understand a bit more how the internet works.

The problem with AI is that both the product and its production now have a negative reputation.

Why should people tolerate the downsides of a factory if its only product is actively causing job losses, mental health problems and large-scale cognitive decline?

Re: Americans Have Grown Dramatically Anti-Data Center

#23

Post by pylua »

db48x wrote: post #19
pylua wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not against data centers, but they need to come with their own clean power supply, and export minimal pollution to its neighbors . If you can’t provide that it’s not worth the downsides for the community.

Small power plants are less efficient and more polluting than larger ones. They are also harder to inspect and certify on a regular schedule. A single 1GW power facility in your county is much better than 10000 small power plants, one for each business.

Even for wind or solar ?

Re: Americans Have Grown Dramatically Anti-Data Center

#24

Post by tencentshill »

ecshafer wrote: post #6
falkensmaize wrote: post #2

It seems like there’s very little upside to allowing one in your state. They don’t bring in large amounts of new jobs once construction is done, they leech power and water like vampires increasing costs and depleting resources, they add noise and light pollution to nearby areas, they’re ugly. They only seem to benefit large tech companies.

The US has been dragging its feet in increasing power capacity and modernizing the grid. Data Centers (and one day EVs) are the kind of push we need to get the complacent monopolies to do the work. The water concerns are absolutely overblown, the paper that everyone draws their numbers from had to be ammended because they had a 1000x water usage error. When a poor town has an empty lot get converted to a data center,…

They don't employ local maintenence/security. They contract with a large, reliable company from the nearest big city.

Re: Americans Have Grown Dramatically Anti-Data Center

#25

Post by db48x »

pylua wrote: post #23
db48x wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Small power plants are less efficient and more polluting than larger ones. They are also harder to inspect and certify on a regular schedule. A single 1GW power facility in your county is much better than 10000 small power plants, one for each business.

Even for wind or solar ?

LOL. You’d need thousands of acres of solar panels to provide power for a single data center. Of course the exact area needed depends on what part of the world you’re in, but are you going to put up with 4 square miles of solar panels in your city? That’s a square two miles on a side, or 3.4km×3.4km. Or are you going to let them install hundreds of wind turbines in your neighborhood?

Re: Americans Have Grown Dramatically Anti-Data Center

#26

Post by ecshafer »

tencentshill wrote: post #24
ecshafer wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US has been dragging its feet in increasing power capacity and modernizing the grid. Data Centers (and one day EVs) are the kind of push we need to get the complacent monopolies to do the work. The water concerns are absolutely overblown, the paper that everyone draws their numbers from had to be ammended because they had a 1000x water usage error. When a poor town has an empty lot get converted to a data center,…

They don't employ local maintenence/security. They contract with a large, reliable company from the nearest big city.

And those companies hire more people in the area. I don't care if the guy is driving 30 minutes to work. I know plenty of people whose careers are "security" . Why would I not want them to have more work?

Re: Americans Have Grown Dramatically Anti-Data Center

#27

Post by nacozarina »

ecshafer wrote: post #26
tencentshill wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't employ local maintenence/security. They contract with a large, reliable company from the nearest big city.

And those companies hire more people in the area. I don't care if the guy is driving 30 minutes to work. I know plenty of people whose careers are "security" . Why would I not want them to have more work?

No, they hire third-party staffing companies who only hire ‘independent contractors’ at low rates, with no benefits and punitive Ts&Cs.

Re: Americans Have Grown Dramatically Anti-Data Center

#28

Post by pylua »

db48x wrote: post #25
pylua wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even for wind or solar ?

LOL. You’d need thousands of acres of solar panels to provide power for a single data center. Of course the exact area needed depends on what part of the world you’re in, but are you going to put up with 4 square miles of solar panels in your city? That’s a square two miles on a side, or 3.4km×3.4km. Or are you going to let them install hundreds of wind turbines in your neighborhood?

Yes. Don’t build the data center unless you can support that. What’s so strange about it?
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