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U.S. to dismantle system tracking Atlantic currents that are at risk of collapse

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Re: U.S. to dismantle system tracking Atlantic currents that are at risk of collapse

#361

Post by defrost »

sofixa wrote: post #359
dotancohen wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US military deterrence has been a paper tiger ever since Biden told Iran "don't" [1], and Iran did, and Biden did not respond. Now whoever the sitting US president would be - Trump or anybody else - must restore that deterrence. There is no nice or easy way to do that. The last time the US had to do that was during WW2 and the enemies were not floating heavy, extended media campaigns and funding US universities at th…

The reason why Iran was even back in the nuclear game was because a moron pulled out of the JCPOA that was giving them concrete steps and carrots to get them to stop.

An agreement that had independent inspectors from several countries accessing utilities and leaving behind tamper resistant (and tamper revealing) instrumentation at regular intervals (along with the usual back and forth robust discussions).

The sort of gear that could count atoms from Fukushima drifting across the oceans to end up in HVAC filters in middle North America.

Re: U.S. to dismantle system tracking Atlantic currents that are at risk of collapse

#362

Post by ben_w »

dotancohen wrote: post #347
ben_w wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Millenium Challenge was 2002, predating Biden by about 20 years, and was the same year Iran was named as part of the "Axis of Evil". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_Challenge_2002 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axis_of_evil#2002_State_of_the...

Yes, Iran had had nuclear ambitions for decades. How is that relevant?

Are you asking how the 2002 Millenium Challenge showing that the US Navy would lose any directy military engagement with Iran by a large margin is relevant to "The American navy was already a paper tiger ~20 years before your example with Biden"?

Re: U.S. to dismantle system tracking Atlantic currents that are at risk of collapse

#363

Post by tardedmeme »

urams wrote: post #208
runako wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generously, what difference does it make to any person if you technically achieve some result but in practice are not able to realize that end state?

Is it the case that if someone doesn't do something some time then they can't do that thing? Like, if you were playing basketball and Lebron James walked by and you threw the ball to him and said "dunk this!' and Lebron said "no, I'm not willing to" does this mean Lebron can't dunk? Because personally, I'd still take Lebron on a basketball team even if he wasn't willing to dunk the ball that one time.

It's more like you ask a paralyzed person to lift his arm and he says he doesn't want to.

https://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/02/science/discovering-that-...

Re: U.S. to dismantle system tracking Atlantic currents that are at risk of collapse

#364

Post by expedition32 »

mxkopy wrote: post #327
port11 wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But… why? Climate change is very much real and even stubborn deep-right voters like my father now ‘believe’ in it. Ok, some people make some cash. But wouldn’t they anyway? I don’t understand this need to keep pandering to a minority and to destroy ecosystems.

It all makes sense when you realize QAnon basically runs the white house now. There’s a very insulated type of American who lives in their own world, that unfortunately lots of voters are apparently sympathetic to. It’s probably seen as a victory against the climate change hoax or something along those lines.

That's how the Chinese empire collapsed. They had scientists and explorers until one day the emperor decided that knowledge upsets harmony.

Re: U.S. to dismantle system tracking Atlantic currents that are at risk of collapse

#365

Post by foo-bar-bat »

roenxi wrote: post #341
qingcharles wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The government knows it's real, these are generally well-educated people who went to decent schools. But, I would challenge that most right-wing voters know whether it is real. Where I live in rural America the vast majority are pro-fossil fuel, anti-EV. EVs are seen as "gay" or "feminine" by the folks out here. So the choice to use fossil fuels might just be some performative machismo, allowing their pick-ups to out…

> So the choice to use fossil fuels might just be some performative machismo, allowing their pick-ups to output black smoke, make a loud noise and look "tough." Might be linked to petrol cars being cheaper to buy for the same amount of car? That seems like an easier explanation. There is a masculine element in that men want to be seen to own big things to show off, but I doubt it has anything to do with liking black…

You have no idea what you're talking about. Respectfully,

Re: U.S. to dismantle system tracking Atlantic currents that are at risk of collapse

#366

Post by holgerschurig »

intended wrote: post #206
KnuthIsGod wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many million graduate students do you need to give the US the military hegemony and political influence over allies and adversaries that the F-35 program provides ? Looked at from a policy maker's viewpoint, things look very different.

America had scientific hegemony and political influence over its allies. All of tech traces its roots to American academia. American tech enthralls more of humanity than American military has ever fought.

Nah, I'd say that common "americans" (really: US citizens) are perhaps a bit on the dumber site. Not only confuse they constantly a continent (America) with a country (USA), they also have no idea about history. Or logics. You wrote "ALL of tech" ... no lets check.

Cars - Germany (Gottlieb Daimler, but he didn't patent it), Germany (Carl Benz which made the first patent).

Motorbikes - Germany (Gottlieb Daimler)

Train - invented in Germany

Radio transmission - UK (James Clark Maxwell described them theoretically), Germany (Heinrich Hertz created/used them first in experiments)

X-Ray - Germany (Gustav Röntgen)

Telephone - Germany (Philipp Reis, your Bell bought examples and reverse engineered them)

Bookpress with movable letters - Germany (Johannes Gensfleisch a.k.a. Gutenberg)

Lightbulb - Germany (Heinrich Göbel)

Periodic system of elements - Russia (Dimitri Mendelejew) and Germany (Justus Lothar Meyer)

Dynamo / Generator - Germany (Werner von Siemens)

Vaccination - UK (Edward Jenner)

Gliding plane - Germany (Otto Lilienthal)

Pain killer - Germany (Felix Hoffmann, Aspirin)

Relativity theory, Quantum theory - Albert Einstein, Planck,

TV - Germany (Manfred von Ardenne)

Cathod ray tube in TVs - Germany (Conrad Röntgen experimentally, Ferdinand Braun with horizontal and vertical directivity of the ray)

Computer - France (Charles Babbage, Ada Lovelace) for mechanical ones and Germany (Konrad Zuse) for electric ones

Atomic fissure, used in plants and bombs - Germany (Otto Hahn)

Chip cards - Germany (Jürgen Dethloff, Helmut Gröttrup)

MP3 music compression - Germany (Fraunhofer Institut)

Electricity - actually already in ancient greek they used electrostatic charging of amber. And one century before Christ they had actual batteries in Bagdad! But then a plethorary of european scientists brought the work forward: UK (William Gilbert, Francis Hauksbee, Joseph Priestley, Henry Cavendish, Humphry Davy, Michael Faraday), Germany (Otto von Guericke, Ewald Jürgen Georg von Kleist, Georg Simon Ohm, Carl Friedrich Gauß), Italy (Luigi Galvani, Allesandro Volta), France (Charles du Fay, Charles Augustin de Coulomb, André-Marie Ampère), Netherlands (Pieter van Musschenbroek), Denmark (Hans Christian Ørsted).

I actually terminate this electricity list here. I could go on and on.

Also note that physical units named after their discoverer indicate some kind of importance of the relevant invention. So we have e.g. Volt, Ampere, Coulomb, Farad, Gauss, Watt, Ørsted, Tesla, Weber as units. None of them is based on USA's academia.

If we look at unit names outside of electricity we also find outdated ones like Röntgen or Curie. And still used ones like Plack constant, Newton, Pascal, Kelvin, Becquerel, Gray, Sievert. So where are the USA american ones if "all" of technology is supposed to stem from their academia?

IF we want to trace the roots, then perhaps we need to go back to antique greek philisophers. Because western academia itself traces itself there. But then again ... something like that existed also in ancient India and maybe China.

Re: U.S. to dismantle system tracking Atlantic currents that are at risk of collapse

#367

Post by enoint »

mxkopy wrote: post #327
port11 wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But… why? Climate change is very much real and even stubborn deep-right voters like my father now ‘believe’ in it. Ok, some people make some cash. But wouldn’t they anyway? I don’t understand this need to keep pandering to a minority and to destroy ecosystems.

It all makes sense when you realize QAnon basically runs the white house now. There’s a very insulated type of American who lives in their own world, that unfortunately lots of voters are apparently sympathetic to. It’s probably seen as a victory against the climate change hoax or something along those lines.

It’s seen in Crusader terms. A bunch of things which are not Christian, for example controlling social order at all costs, are adornments on nationalism. The apocalyptic parts of QAnon slot into their belief system. So many other religious movements rely on salvation. Another commenter mentioned ancient China. Big political upheavals swept ancient China based on very slight new ideas about salvation.

Re: U.S. to dismantle system tracking Atlantic currents that are at risk of collapse

#368

Post by vel0city »

roenxi wrote: post #341
qingcharles wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The government knows it's real, these are generally well-educated people who went to decent schools. But, I would challenge that most right-wing voters know whether it is real. Where I live in rural America the vast majority are pro-fossil fuel, anti-EV. EVs are seen as "gay" or "feminine" by the folks out here. So the choice to use fossil fuels might just be some performative machismo, allowing their pick-ups to out…

> So the choice to use fossil fuels might just be some performative machismo, allowing their pick-ups to output black smoke, make a loud noise and look "tough." Might be linked to petrol cars being cheaper to buy for the same amount of car? That seems like an easier explanation. There is a masculine element in that men want to be seen to own big things to show off, but I doubt it has anything to do with liking black…

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about if you don't know anything about rolling coal and you don't realize people like to drive loud cars.

I've had several friends tell me they just couldn't drive an EV because it just doesn't have a soul, meaning it doesn't have that roar for its performance. It being nearly silent as it accelerates hard is missing half the point. It's a common thing among car enthusiasts.

Re: U.S. to dismantle system tracking Atlantic currents that are at risk of collapse

#369

Post by Ajakks »

expedition32 wrote: post #364
mxkopy wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It all makes sense when you realize QAnon basically runs the white house now. There’s a very insulated type of American who lives in their own world, that unfortunately lots of voters are apparently sympathetic to. It’s probably seen as a victory against the climate change hoax or something along those lines.

That's how the Chinese empire collapsed. They had scientists and explorers until one day the emperor decided that knowledge upsets harmony.

You don't know anything about China.

Re: U.S. to dismantle system tracking Atlantic currents that are at risk of collapse

#370

Post by postflopclarity »

ufocia wrote: post #19
postflopclarity wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

because it is useful information for the public benefit, and not very expensive.

What does it mean to be not expensive? How much do all the not very expensive endeavors as up to?

I would pull a wild number out of my ass and estimate that all the "not very expensive endeavors" with approximately similar scope / usefulness to these current trackers add up to, maybe $20B in the budget? which is a microscopic rounding error compared to the amount of money that goes to bribes, fraud, and grift in the DoD budget.
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