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Silicon Valley's dirty secret - age bias

reuters.com

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Re: Silicon Valley's dirty secret - age bias

#151
post #146

My first thought: narcissism . Narcissists hate being around older people because it reminds them that, some day, they'll be old and unable to do the sorts of things that narcissists tend to do on the weekend. I don't think that all founders are narcissists, but if you want to be able to hire narcissists (which 75% of execs are, let's be honest) then ageism becomes practical, sadly. Then again, I think some of it is…

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Re: Silicon Valley's dirty secret - age bias

#152

Dirty yes, secret no. Straight talk: I'm the CTO at a startup and I often have to call out the founders and employees for ageism. I resent that they say things that make me think they wouldn't take hiring an experienced engineer seriously. I resent that they think my profession is best served by dumb happy newbies with no private life. I refuse to tolerate this in any company I work for and I will ceaselessly call th…

Doesn't shit-talking Nutrivise in a public forum kind of reflect poorly on both of you? I'm always weirded out by people who call-out their employer in a public space like that...

Re: Silicon Valley's dirty secret - age bias

#153

I think there's a fundamental divide between people who became adults before the internet existed in the modern form (circa 1995 or so), and after. I also think that there is effectively another break point at the advent of the smart phone (circa 2007) - people who become adults after smart phones were commonplace have an entirely different worldview. I think that if your focus is narrowly on facility with technology…

> people who become adults after smart phones were commonplace have an entirely different worldview.

Care to elaborate?

Re: Silicon Valley's dirty secret - age bias

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly, it's an indicator. At the CEO level, I'd argue that you must look for people who understand the value of understanding their target audience ("customer") and taking the low cost / low friction action required. Or, put simply, spend a couple of hours and $200 on cloths to look the part. What, exactly, do you think would happen to a 24 year old hotshot banker who goes to an interview at, say, Goldman Sachs wea…

> At the CEO level, I'd argue that you must look for people who understand the value of understanding their target audience ("customer") and taking the low cost / low friction action required. > Or, put simply, spend a couple of hours and $200 on cloths to look the part. Assembling a $200 wardrobe tailored to appeal to the innate biases of someone hiring based on the clothes you wear is not low cost, low friction, or…

> If your company is aspiring to the Goldman Sachs culture, I will never apply to or do business with it or you.

There are a lot of things to fault Goldman Sachs for, but they are a tremendously effective and efficient organization. Most startups should be so lucky to be so well-run.

Re: Silicon Valley's dirty secret - age bias

#156
post #11

It's not just old guys, you know. 8 years ago, I was able to design the same quality of websites, yet no one gave a fuck because I was 'too young' according to them. Today, they are ready to pay me thousands of dollars because I have the age factor and a couple of white hairs. Many people are under the wrong notion that age = experience. While it may be partially true, it isn't all the time. When you're young, you ha…

Yes - it does run both ways ;-)

Back in the distant past when I was in my 20's I was the Technical Director of a company (kinda-sorta CTOish equivalent). One of the guys I hired in ops was in his late forties, early fifties.

We worked in the same office.

We regularly got great entertainment value from people who had come to talk to me naturally walked over to the nicely dressed distinguished looking guy at the large desk (needed for building new kit) rather than the pony tailed youth in the corner ;)

Re: Silicon Valley's dirty secret - age bias

#157

They are calling this "a secret"? - more like overt bigotry from what I have seen. Isn't Y-Combinator one of the worst offenders? From what I have read Paul Graham brags actually about his age discrimination.

Eventually, some enterprising law firm is going to make a bundle. The legal culture in SV (WSGR and their ilk) are not steeped in class-action suits, several folks are going to get their asses kicked from the legal defense, if nothing else.

I'm already shocked Google, Apple, etc, haven't been slammed with class-action suits for their overt anti-competitive hiring practices re: non-poaching, etc.

Re: Silicon Valley's dirty secret - age bias

#158

The thing is, Randy did get hired once he shaved his head and started dressing down. This isn't ageism, it's a filter against older people who are unable to adapt themselves to the changing environment. It's like classic cars: no-one is going to buy a neglected rust bucket that hasn't been serviced since the 1960s. Yet if the car is loved and cared for it can be worth millions ( http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/fer…

It's not just about adaption, looking good/trendy is about first impressions and signaling that you'll fit in with the "cool" culture at a certain company. I've known young people who dressed badly not do well either, and I've often counseled them to make some effort with their appearance and it makes a huge difference, even very little things like buying shirts that fit or paying money for a real haircut. We'd love it to be a pure meritocracy, but at the end of the day what you look like matters to other humans.

Re: Silicon Valley's dirty secret - age bias

#159

Would a 60 year old really want to work 18 hour days with a bunch of 20-somethings crammed into a San Francisco studio converted office? A Silicon Valley startup is just one type, but there are infinite businesses out there to start and grow at any age in your life.

Would a 60 year old really want to work 18 hour days with a bunch of 20-somethings crammed into a San Francisco studio converted office?

Nope.. the 60 year old would want them to succeed rather than working 18 hours a day ;-)

Re: Silicon Valley's dirty secret - age bias

#160
post #152

Dirty yes, secret no. Straight talk: I'm the CTO at a startup and I often have to call out the founders and employees for ageism. I resent that they say things that make me think they wouldn't take hiring an experienced engineer seriously. I resent that they think my profession is best served by dumb happy newbies with no private life. I refuse to tolerate this in any company I work for and I will ceaselessly call th…

Doesn't shit-talking Nutrivise in a public forum kind of reflect poorly on both of you? I'm always weirded out by people who call-out their employer in a public space like that...

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