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SEOs are Growth Hackers

johnfdoherty.com

21–30 of 41 posts

Re: SEOs are Growth Hackers

#21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LOLz. SEO = spam. I see what did there. I'm tired of that argument. Read some real SEO blogs and you'll see that it's not. Do the investigation.

Sorry your feelings are hurt, man. Real hackers build spam filters and search engine so people can find the information they are looking for. Spewing spam and tricking the search engines to prefer your content are two facets of the same disease.

Real hackers are on both sides of the spam game. There is too much money for smart people to not do it.

For a short time I worked for a company who was very spammy and outright sketchy. They had a team of dev and ops people who cranked out hundreds of millions of emails and "free ipod ads" per day.

There were heavy API integrations with Commission Junction and the porn affiliate networks, redundant systems, and all that. I leaned a lot in the 45 days I worked there.

All of them "hackers" in this sense. They got the job done, and it worked. But I hated every minute of it.

Re: SEOs are Growth Hackers

#22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LOLz. SEO = spam. I see what did there. I'm tired of that argument. Read some real SEO blogs and you'll see that it's not. Do the investigation.

Sorry your feelings are hurt, man. Real hackers build spam filters and search engine so people can find the information they are looking for. Spewing spam and tricking the search engines to prefer your content are two facets of the same disease.

if you're truly equating SEO with "spewing spam" then you're admitting you're completely ignorant to what SEO truly is.

Re: SEOs are Growth Hackers

#23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So hacks are not solid marketing? I think SEOs understand how people and the Internet work, and so we're well positioned to be the ones driving this forward. I've personally helped clients with growth strategies based off of new sections of their site to drive traffic using some very cool technical "hacks" that have worked terrificly well and are search engine friendly.

I should have said "hacking" not "hacks". Hacking implies coding (at least to me), and a growth hacker uses programming skills to drive growth. I just don't see many SEOs doing that. I love SEOs, I think most are fantastic people, but when I think Growth Hacker I don't see the SEOs I talk with all the time.

I'm pretty sure even the YC application asks you to a describe a time you hacked a non-computer system. Seems reasonable to extrapolate that not all hacking involves "coding", but bending/manipulating/breaking(?) systems to accomplish your goal (in this case, growth) and maximize your return. No reason to disqualify SEO.

Re: SEOs are Growth Hackers

#24

SEOs should be a laser focused thing, but it is more likely a catch all title for "internet marketers" and the industry seems to be fairly good at latching on to any buzzword in the online marketing world. SEOs last big bandwagon was social media gurus, especially on twitter. Now Growth Hackers? Um... yay... :(

Actually we openly hated on social media "gurus", but we respect social media marketers who know what they are talking about. I'm the only "SEO" I know talking about SEO and growth hacking. I wouldn't say we're latching onto it. Most SEOs seem to disagree with me anyways.

I secondly hate on social media "gurus" as well as SEOers who can't code (or at least read html).

IMHO: Growth Hacking is just Inbound Marketing for startups. Going from 0 users to 1MM+. You leverage all the online marketing skills: seo, ppc, email, display (retargeting), ux, social, cro, etc.

BTW, nice post John - glad to see it on here as well as inbound.

Re: SEOs are Growth Hackers

#25
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry your feelings are hurt, man. Real hackers build spam filters and search engine so people can find the information they are looking for. Spewing spam and tricking the search engines to prefer your content are two facets of the same disease.

if you're truly equating SEO with "spewing spam" then you're admitting you're completely ignorant to what SEO truly is.

I am equating SEO with 'tricking search engines into preferring your content'. The whole premise of the open web is that natural selection would allow rich information to be filtered through because it is good. Producing garbage and tricking the tools which filter information are both counterproductive pursuits.

Re: SEOs are Growth Hackers

#26
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry your feelings are hurt, man. Real hackers build spam filters and search engine so people can find the information they are looking for. Spewing spam and tricking the search engines to prefer your content are two facets of the same disease.

Real hackers are on both sides of the spam game. There is too much money for smart people to not do it. For a short time I worked for a company who was very spammy and outright sketchy. They had a team of dev and ops people who cranked out hundreds of millions of emails and "free ipod ads" per day. There were heavy API integrations with Commission Junction and the porn affiliate networks, redundant systems, and all t…

I used the word hackers as defined in McKenzie Wark's 'Hacker Manifesto' ( http://subsol.c3.hu/subsol_2/contributors0/warktext.html ).

01. There is a double spooking the world, the double of abstraction. The fortunes of states and armies, companies and communities depend on it. All contending classes - the landlords and farmers, the workers and capitalists - revere yet fear the relentless abstraction of the world on which their fortunes yet depend. All the classes but one. The hacker class.

02. Whatever code we hack, be it programming language, poetic language, math or music, curves or colourings, we create the possibility of new things entering the world. Not always great things, or even good things, but new things. In art, in science, in philosophy and culture, in any production of knowledge where data can be gathered, where information can be extracted from it, and where in that information new possibilities for the world are produced, there are hackers hacking the new out of the old. While hackers create these new worlds, we do not possess them. That which we create is mortgaged to others, and to the interests of others, to states and corporations who control the means for making worlds we alone discover. We do not own what we produce - it owns us.

03. And yet we don't quite know who we are. While we recognise our distinctive existence as a group, as programmers, as artists or writers or scientists or musicians, we rarely see these ways of representing ourselves as mere fragments of a class experience that is still struggling to express itself as itself, as expressions of the process of producing abstraction in the world. Geeks and freaks become what they are negatively, through their exclusion by others. Hackers are a class, but an abstract class, a class as yet to hack itself into manifest existence as itself.

Re: SEOs are Growth Hackers

#27

Growth Marketers? Sure. Growth Hackers? Very rarely. I love your posts John, but "Hacker" implies a level of coding in my opinion, and I think most here on HN would agree. As someone who talks to a few dozen SEOs a week, 99% of them cannot code in a fashion needed to be a "Growth Hacker". It's not that they can't contribute to growth, it's just that the traditional methods SEOs use (content, technical fixes, social)…

I think people need to start breaking out of their current modes of thinking, and this article represents that. SEOs and Developers have more goals in common than people realize, and the approach is very similar. As long as we're talking about real SEOs, not these "guaranteed spots on Google" jokers, but people like John. SEOs are there to solve a problem. The problem of course is much deeper than getting your site n…

Thank you for writing out your perspective on this. It had a positive impact on my perception of my coworkers. I see that they are simply looking for an optimized customer experience to solve real problems. Previously, I saw them as part of the team but not part of the "problem solving" team. My perspective has shifted. Thanks for sharing.

Re: SEOs are Growth Hackers

#28
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if you're truly equating SEO with "spewing spam" then you're admitting you're completely ignorant to what SEO truly is.

I am equating SEO with 'tricking search engines into preferring your content'. The whole premise of the open web is that natural selection would allow rich information to be filtered through because it is good. Producing garbage and tricking the tools which filter information are both counterproductive pursuits.

You realize Google offers an official guide to SEO right[1]? Why would they offer a guide for 'tricking search engines into preferring your content'?

The answer? They aren't offering a guide for tricking anything, they're offering a guide about how to properly structure your site so that it is easily crawlable and identifiable by their spiders so searchers can query for what you have to offer.

The core purpose of SEO is to do exactly what you said here: "The whole premise of the open web is that natural selection would allow rich information to be filtered through because it is good." It's called Search Engine OPTIMIZATION for a reason. The goal is to build very well structured sites by following specific sets of best practices.

Sure, there are lots of spammers out there. But just like a square is a rectangle but a rectangle isn't necessarily a square, a spammer is an SEO but an SEO isn't necessarily a spammer.

Stop spewing FUD.

1. http://googlewebmastercentral.blogspot.com/2008/11/googles-s...

Re: SEOs are Growth Hackers

#29

Growth Marketers? Sure. Growth Hackers? Very rarely. I love your posts John, but "Hacker" implies a level of coding in my opinion, and I think most here on HN would agree. As someone who talks to a few dozen SEOs a week, 99% of them cannot code in a fashion needed to be a "Growth Hacker". It's not that they can't contribute to growth, it's just that the traditional methods SEOs use (content, technical fixes, social)…

99% of the SEO's you talk to can't code? As a marketer, deeply entrenched in the SEO space, I can assure you that MOST TOP SEO's are first and foremost developers...More importantly, the coders that understand marketing are the ones that thrived and continue to thrive in the SEO world.

Growth hacking is a bedrock of the best SEO practices out there. The best SEO is inherently viral to compel and force people to link to your content. Think about Youtube, and everyone embedding videos with links back to youtube... This is literally the definition of SEO strategy...finding ways to build into your product inherent link-bait.

I would argue that Growth Hacking is a prerequisite to execute excellent SEO.

Re: SEOs are Growth Hackers

#30

Growth Marketers? Sure. Growth Hackers? Very rarely. I love your posts John, but "Hacker" implies a level of coding in my opinion, and I think most here on HN would agree. As someone who talks to a few dozen SEOs a week, 99% of them cannot code in a fashion needed to be a "Growth Hacker". It's not that they can't contribute to growth, it's just that the traditional methods SEOs use (content, technical fixes, social)…

99% of the SEO's you talk to can't code? As a marketer, deeply entrenched in the SEO space, I can assure you that MOST TOP SEO's are first and foremost developers...More importantly, the coders that understand marketing are the ones that thrived and continue to thrive in the SEO world. Growth hacking is a bedrock of the best SEO practices out there. The best SEO is inherently viral to compel and force people to link…

I would totally agree that the best SEOs can code. But still stand by my 99% number : ) Most SEOs are not coders (knowing how to customize a Thesis is not coding in my view)
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