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Stop Killing Games

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Re: Stop Killing Games

#71

Post by [deleted] »

F3nd0 wrote: post #23
nerdjon wrote: post #8

This is basically advocating for open source games which is a completely different story than what stop killing games is trying to do. There are tons of closed source games that have zero online component to them. I don't see how you can actually argue that this is a good thing, especially when they say: > The freedom to redistribute copies so you can help others. That... basically kills the entire gaming industry. A…

> That... basically kills the entire gaming industry. > > Am I missing something serious here or is this really trying to advocate for that. What you might be missing is that the author advocates for free software (which is framed differently from open source), while games typically aren’t pure software, but rely very heavily on art assets. The movement for free software traditionally draws a distinction between soft…

[deleted]

Re: Stop Killing Games

#72

Post by ZeWaka »

F3nd0 wrote: post #23
nerdjon wrote: post #8

This is basically advocating for open source games which is a completely different story than what stop killing games is trying to do. There are tons of closed source games that have zero online component to them. I don't see how you can actually argue that this is a good thing, especially when they say: > The freedom to redistribute copies so you can help others. That... basically kills the entire gaming industry. A…

> That... basically kills the entire gaming industry. > > Am I missing something serious here or is this really trying to advocate for that. What you might be missing is that the author advocates for free software (which is framed differently from open source), while games typically aren’t pure software, but rely very heavily on art assets. The movement for free software traditionally draws a distinction between soft…

Dwarf Fortress is a modern example of that paradigm.

Re: Stop Killing Games

#73

Post by captn3m0 »

krupan wrote: post #47

The discussion here is amazing! Takes me right back to the early days of Linux and discovering Free Software. How will developers eat?? Who would write software for free?? These people clearly didn't think this through!! Amazing to hear it all again, lol! Let's think about it. Free software just applies to the source code. Artwork, logos, even trademarked names are not Free. Support, services, and documentation can a…

The discussion is so bad because the article is.

There’s so many nuances around assets, trademarks, copyright, monetisation, cheatware(?), multi-player etc but the article ignores all of it and goes for the straight freedom angle. How do you even have in-game purchases when you can’t control client code? Do we even have a single example of FOSS and mainstream game that made money and was multiplayer?

Terrible slop and I am flagging it.

Re: Stop Killing Games

#74

Post by itvision »

I love it but how do people tolerate the Steam launcher? Why is it a requirement to launch ages old games that lost support aens ago and do not even support Windows 10/11 and the best way to launch them is under emulation or virtualization, e.g. in Windows XP, but modern Steam is not compatible with XP, so ... you're screwed?

Valve could have made `steam.dll` optional for really old games but DRM is DRM and it's here to stay.

Re: Stop Killing Games

#75

Post by john_strinlai »

figmert wrote: post #68
john_strinlai wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So yes, there has been plenty of thought, scrutiny, improvements, etc. 40 years of it in fact. what percent of businesses follow the FSF freedoms and turn a profit? i would love it if i could get all my games for free, and legally give additional copies to all my students, family, and friends. but the developers pumping out those games probably want to see some sort of return more substantial than whatever trickles…

Not really my point. My point is more that you suggested no one has thought about this, but yes, they have. To answer your question, there have been plenty of business who have created and published free software (albeit plenty have later closed them). Notable examples are Databricks, Hashicorp, Mongodb, RedHat. Sure they've built a moat on top of their free software, but they have (or had) free software regardless.

>My point is more that you suggested no one has thought about this, but yes, they have.

i didnt say no one has thought about free software.

i said that this specific llm that output this article did not think about how the freedoms would work in todays gaming industry.

there are dozens of issues that immediately pop into my head, mostly specific to gaming, which are not mentioned or addressed at all.

Re: Stop Killing Games

#76

Post by dijit »

ryandrake wrote: post #41
delichon wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because we don't have a right to a continuing service that requires their labor unless they agreed to it. A buyer should discount the value of products that rely on ongoing services accordingly. See also 'Juicero'.

If a software requires a server component that is costly to run, then I would expect the software developer to charge a subscription in order to use it, rather than offering it as a one-time charge and then destroying it when they realize letting me continue to use it is costly.

Yeah, but gamers in particular are against subscriptions and micro-transactions.

Only one gets away with it: World of Warcraft.

Re: Stop Killing Games

#77

Post by ashdnazg »

dijit wrote: post #63
F3nd0 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As not a game dev myself, may I ask for clarification? How does ‘Stop Killing Games’ legislation kill any sort of multiplayer games specifically? Aren’t there already games which don’t have the problem the movement is trying to solve? Wouldn’t it only require action from you if you were trying to kill multiplayer in the first place? I feel like I may have misunderstood your point or am just lacking a lot of important…

Well, ok, you grasped at a few issues there that go off in different directions. The issue with "Stop Killing Games" is that the legislation doesn't currently look like anything, it's a broad appeal and the solution for studios will depend on where it finally lands. If it lands in the realm of "Games must be released FOSS after x years" then, aside from the fact that a lot of the times we don't own the copyrights to…

> But the server binary doesn't start unless you have 190GiB of RAM and 38 available CPUs.

As far as I understand that situation is accepted by the initiative. The requirement is not that it works on any specific hardware or software stack, just that it can theoretically work.

> a binary that can be used to create cheats against the next version of the product

Anti-cheat solutions aren't required to be released, and if there are bugs in the server, they might even be found and patched by the community.

Re: Stop Killing Games

#79

Post by john_strinlai »

fragmede wrote: post #69
dijit wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, ok, you grasped at a few issues there that go off in different directions. The issue with "Stop Killing Games" is that the legislation doesn't currently look like anything, it's a broad appeal and the solution for studios will depend on where it finally lands. If it lands in the realm of "Games must be released FOSS after x years" then, aside from the fact that a lot of the times we don't own the copyrights to…

> the server binary doesn't start unless you have 190GiB of RAM and 38 available CPUs. > So, we'd have to work on slimming that down ...why? My reading of the law is that you need to make the binaries accessible, you don't have to provide the hardware to run it on.

>My reading of the law is that you need to make the binaries accessible, you don't have to provide the hardware to run it on.

if no one can run the binaries, despite them being accessible, then the regulation has failed and there will be a new movement to alter the regulation.

the spirit of the law is that i can reasonably spin up an instance of the server for me and my friends to play.

Re: Stop Killing Games

#80

Post by enmerk4r »

Free games aren't as crazy an idea as one might think, the same way open-source projects like Blender are able to make quite a bit of money. If any of you are fans of space simulator games, I'd check out Kitten Space Agency by RocketWerkz. Their intention is to make this game not only free but DRM-free, so that users can legally put it on a thumb drive and share it with each other. You can also play it entirely offline. Because it's an educational game that's a spiritual successor to a beloved Kerbal Space Program with a significant cult following, they are hoping to continue the project via donations and by partnering with educational institutions. We'll see if this works out for them, seems a little ambitious, but I really hope they set a precedent.
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