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Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release

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Re: Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release

#331

Post by Filligree »

mx7zysuj4xew wrote: post #275
Filligree wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s interesting. I have the opposite effect—X11 always had jank and latency, to the point that it drove me to windows for a couple of years. This is with multiple monitors on Nvidia’s, all of which support vsync. Disabling that did help, but why would I want to? Wayland, currently, is butter smooth.

It's faux smoothness caused by the mandatory vsync. There's several frames of delay in Wayland which apparently you're not sensitive to

I’m sensitive enough that I bought 180Hz monitors.

Re: Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release

#332

Post by drnick1 »

qweqwe14 wrote: post #239
lionkor wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry, but are we still going on about this? I love a good debate as much as the next guy, but being able to just have one interface (systemd's) for all services and having a more-or-less consistent language really helps. At this point, it's simply a bit too late. I'm sure in the early days it was still a choice, but when you want prepackaged things, you get systemd.

It's Linux bro, we absolutely need to have 500 different options for every single thing. Doesn't matter if every option sucks, diversity is above everything! /s There are some truly special people among Linux users that think diversity in init systems/libc implementations/etc is a good thing for a general-purpose desktop. They don't understand that people just want stuff to work, and developers don't want to support…

> Success of Linux on the desktop is fundamentally incompatible with diversity, but unfortunately not everyone gets that.

The vast majority of "server" distributions now use systemd as well.

Re: Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release

#333

Post by foresto »

teo_zero wrote: post #205
foresto wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My Wayland pet peeve: It still lacks keyboard LED control, so unprivileged X11 programs that use the Scroll Lock light as an indicator cannot be ported to Wayland. This Plasma change is going to be painful for me. I wonder if there's an up-to-date list of Wayland shortcomings.

> unprivileged X11 programs that use the Scroll Lock light as an indicator I didn't know such apps existed! What do they use it for?

One use case is a new message indicator. Unlike icons on the desktop, keyboard lights are visible even when a full-screen application is running, or when we're to the side of or across the room from the computer, or when the display is asleep. I depend on this for my daily communications.

Another use case is for keyboard macro utilities to indicate the state of layers, modifier modes, or multi-keystroke input sequences.

Others surely exist, since hardware lights can indicate just about anything, and are especially valuable where visibility is important. Even shell scripts can use them on X11, via the xset command.

Re: Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release

#334

Post by Saris »

pseudalopex wrote: post #103

Plasma/Wayland Known Significant Issues[1] No ability to save and restore positions of native Wayland windows Real-fake-session-restored apps don't remember which virtual desktop their windows were on No full-screen aspect ratio correction "Spare Layouts" feature not implemented "Per-application Keyboard Layout" does not work No way to change the gamma or manually adjust the colors without generating or finding an ap…

Also recently discovered KeepassXC can't do auto-type on Wayland for some reason. It seems to have a massive amount of limitations.

Re: Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release

#335

Post by genpfault »

Saris wrote: post #334
pseudalopex wrote: post #103

Plasma/Wayland Known Significant Issues[1] No ability to save and restore positions of native Wayland windows Real-fake-session-restored apps don't remember which virtual desktop their windows were on No full-screen aspect ratio correction "Spare Layouts" feature not implemented "Per-application Keyboard Layout" does not work No way to change the gamma or manually adjust the colors without generating or finding an ap…

Also recently discovered KeepassXC can't do auto-type on Wayland for some reason. It seems to have a massive amount of limitations.

> KeepassXC can't do auto-type on Wayland

https://github.com/keepassxreboot/keepassxc/issues/2281

Though it looks like there's a recent PR for that:

https://github.com/keepassxreboot/keepassxc/pull/13359

Re: Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release

#336

Post by dormento »

senfiaj wrote: post #70
MegaDeKay wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a virtual pinball cab with two (and soon) three displays. Wayland really makes life difficult here because the software needs to always put the playfield on one display, the backglass on another, and the "dot matrix display" window on a third. That's a big no-no with Wayland. Fortunately KDE has window rules as a workaround. Sway and Hyprland allow similar rules. Mutter on Gnome has no equivalent. I'm guessing…

Yes, exactly. This security paranoia makes the devs' lives much more complicated. I have seen many apps turning off advanced features, such as screen color pickers. Automatation tools can be broken. Apps cant know their window positions, etc. You can see countless dev rants about Wayland and how it's generally unpleasant experience to work with.

Ah so that's why i cant use the chrome devtools color picker to pick colors off graphics editing software.

Makes me mad.

Re: Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release

#337

Post by milliams »

The main blocker I have for moving is the poor session management. On X11 for decades I've been able to log out of my KDE session and when I log in again, all my Konsole windows re-open with the tabs open in the same folders, Dolphin opens with all the tabs open to the same locations etc.

I think they recently added support at the KWin level for reopening windows to the right desktops etc but as far as each individual apps, it seems to be up to them individually to get this working again. I would have thought that at least for the KDE apps, they could just have a compatibility layer from the X11 session management to make it work but it doesn't seem there yet.

Re: Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release

#338

Post by monooso »

mminer237 wrote: post #195
pseudalopex wrote: post #103

Plasma/Wayland Known Significant Issues[1] No ability to save and restore positions of native Wayland windows Real-fake-session-restored apps don't remember which virtual desktop their windows were on No full-screen aspect ratio correction "Spare Layouts" feature not implemented "Per-application Keyboard Layout" does not work No way to change the gamma or manually adjust the colors without generating or finding an ap…

Also, I still haven't found a clipboard manager that works normally on Wayland. And I rarely get it to recognize all my monitors first try. And it crashes semi-regularly. Not sure how much is inherent to Wayland vs Gnome, but life is way better since I upgraded to Xlibre & Cinnamon.

I've found the built-in clipboard manager on KDE Plasma 6 to be very reliable.

When I used GNOME, the Clipboard Indicator extension [1] served me well.

[1] https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/779/clipboard-indicat...

Re: Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release

#339

Post by monooso »

Kaliboy wrote: post #132
fhars wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, I recently installed a system with debian 13, and it was really easy to distinguish between X11 and wayland sessions: if the session displays a plasma desktop, it's X11, if it crashes on login, it is wayland. YMMV if you try to switch to wayland.

I upgraded to the latest PopOS with Cosmic running on Wayland. Honestly everything just worked, but using it made me so nauseous. There was some latency somewhere, never figured it out. Running Cinnamon on X11 now. I did read some suggestions to improve latency but I have PTSD so it's going to take a while before I try Wayland again.

I've found Cosmic to be rather flaky, sadly (I'm rooting for it to succeed), so the latency issues may not have been Wayland-related.

Both KDE and GNOME seem to run very smoothly on Wayland.

Re: Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release

#340

Post by strobe »

melodyogonna wrote: post #298
strobe wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recently had opposite experience - I been using NixOS with X11+i3 for about 2 years and never had any significant issues beside some troubles with one Nvidia driver version, even most Steam games worked for me without any issues. But out of curiosity decided to give try Wayland+Sway. First Sway remind me that Nvidia GPU completely unsupported and probably wont work at all, but in really fix for that just to use som…

Interesting. From looking into it Wayland had issues with Nvidia, I thought that was already fixed? I admit, it is a bit of a hack getting screen-sharing to work; I've not really had time for it yet as it isn't a daily driver for me.

>I thought that was already fixed?

only partially and both Sway and Hyperland still doesn't has official support yet.

this blog post explaining some issues https://michael.stapelberg.ch/posts/2026-01-04-wayland-sway-...

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