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Gemma 4 12B: A unified, encoder-free multimodal model

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Re: Gemma 4 12B: A unified, encoder-free multimodal model

#161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally agree that it is "encoding" in the general sense, but I think they are referring to the lack of an "encoder" neural network.

In hindsight I may have been pedantic.

Not at all, I had the same feeling as yours the first time I read it. I think the key is that the "encoder" they're using is just a linear projection, which is probably pretty fast and memory efficient. A single matmul vs a ViT encoder is probably a huge win.

Re: Gemma 4 12B: A unified, encoder-free multimodal model

#162
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are effectively one and the same on Apple Silicon.

Which most people as a matter of fact don't use. A majority of people with laptop have separate memory pools and the VRAM of them is nowhere near that and even on most gaming laptops you aren't getting 16GB VRAM.

> A majority of people with laptop have separate memory pools

Majority of people with laptop have RAM and igpu using some of that as VRAM.

Re: Gemma 4 12B: A unified, encoder-free multimodal model

#163
post #137

We are now entering the closed loop game. Google doesn't need anyone else to accelerate their models. This is their bread and butter. I'm both shocked but also not surprised that they continue to develop such efficiencies. Honestly it's like silicon and CPU architecture advancement. We kept shrinking it and shrinking it and it kept getting more and more powerful and here we are with AI and it's only going to be 100x…

> We kept shrinking it and shrinking it and it kept getting more and more powerful and here we are with AI and it's only going to be 100x more efficient with time. It's definitely an exciting time, but in terms of advancements in the state of the art, there is a lot of low-hanging fruit left to pick. There IS a bottom, however, as you can only encode so much "knowledge" in a small number of parameters. This feels to…

It's definitely a core component of a bigger system. We are effectively trying to recreate intelligence and human life through models and robotics. So the key insights for me, the LLM is the cerebral cortex but we have a lot more to recreate. Once you map in sensory input continuously and give it physical robotics, things start to change. But even before that leaving these things in simulated realities is what will happen, and right now we have things that operate based on our commands, but a complete step function will be the things that act on their own and that will be a very dangerous time but also where we see some very surreal things happening. They might not necessarily be made in the same way either, they might operate on entirely different types of architecture.

Re: Gemma 4 12B: A unified, encoder-free multimodal model

#165

The big story here is the encoder-free part, which I still don't fully understand. > Vision: We replaced Gemma 4’s vision encoder with a lightweight embedding module consisting of a single matrix multiplication, positional embedding and normalizations. That's technically encoding, just without using a dedicated model for it like SigLIP? The Developer's Guide elaborates, it's still a 35M layer which I am curious is ro…

Either Google changed the text or you editorialised it a tiny bit - just for all others that got excited, they mean 16GB VRAM. So a premium graphics card requiring a >2500€ device is the minimum to run this.

Still progress, but not quite democratic yet.

Weird though that Google might be cannibalising it's own AI subscription service?

Re: Gemma 4 12B: A unified, encoder-free multimodal model

#166
post #148
post #120

I ran the Q4 quant (used with llama.cpp) though my "minesweeper" vibe-coding benchmark: https://senko.net/vibecode-bench/2026/minesweeper-gamma-4-12... The result is decent, but it had a few bizzare/trivial syntax errors I had to fix manually: it would do an extra closing bracket or paren a few times, and wanted to separate function definitions with comma. Not sure what that was about, but otherwise the output run ju…

Thank you for sharing this. Do you think the syntactical issues could be addressed with fine tuning or some other kind of parameter tweaking? That's frustrating hah.

With a harness you could feed the code to a linter and if there are errors feed that to a model automatically. It’s amazing that the models are good enough that I haven’t bothered doing this

Re: Gemma 4 12B: A unified, encoder-free multimodal model

#167
post #31

What's Google's business case for releasing open models? Don't get me wrong, I am grateful and appreciative of these releases. I'm trying to understand how it fits into their bigger picture as a for profit company? Are they not helping competitors build on the novel technology they have developed? Is it simply goodwill and/or marketing? Or am I missing something strategic?

Android and Chrome need on-device AI capabilities. Google can't lock down those weights like it can with server-side ML. So it's easier to just release those models as open source and make it official, since someone would inevitably hack the weights out anyway.

But these can't be the same model - the model is far too demanding to be part of regular chrome for most people.

Re: Gemma 4 12B: A unified, encoder-free multimodal model

#168

What's Google's business case for releasing open models? Don't get me wrong, I am grateful and appreciative of these releases. I'm trying to understand how it fits into their bigger picture as a for profit company? Are they not helping competitors build on the novel technology they have developed? Is it simply goodwill and/or marketing? Or am I missing something strategic?

A strong business case for Gemma includes fine tuning, adding AI to apps that run in the cloud, strengthening Android, shifting unprofitable small AI compute to devices, and harming competitors. The first two would be done using Google's cloud services due to integration with Gemma. I think Google is currently the best positioned company to profit from AI sales to businesses over the next few years, and Gemma is a critical part of the story.

Re: Gemma 4 12B: A unified, encoder-free multimodal model

#169

The big story here is the encoder-free part, which I still don't fully understand. > Vision: We replaced Gemma 4’s vision encoder with a lightweight embedding module consisting of a single matrix multiplication, positional embedding and normalizations. That's technically encoding, just without using a dedicated model for it like SigLIP? The Developer's Guide elaborates, it's still a 35M layer which I am curious is ro…

Either Google changed the text or you editorialised it a tiny bit - just for all others that got excited, they mean 16GB V RAM. So a premium graphics card requiring a >2500€ device is the minimum to run this. Still progress, but not quite democratic yet. Weird though that Google might be cannibalising it's own AI subscription service?

I haven't tried this model yet, but I can run Gemma 31B w/ the MTP drafter in pure CPU at about 10tok/s so this should run at about 20-30tok/s on a decent CPU, it'll probably run at >50tok/s on any Mac that can fit it, and lots of people have a gaming GPU with enough VRAM. In terms of access to hardware being a gate, it's one you can hop pretty easily.

Re: Gemma 4 12B: A unified, encoder-free multimodal model

#170

Its image processing is terrible. I ran several tests against it against Qwen 3.5 0.8b (yes, 7% the size) and Qwen beat it every time with Gemma often getting things entirely wrong. I even gave it a plain image saying "This is a test" and it thought for 6 minutes trying to analyze it and failed. Qwen 3.5 0.8b confidently got it in under a second . It may be that the Q6 quant I got is borked (or my LM Studio is), but…

I guess Google implements more / stronger guard rails than Alibaba and thus confuses these small models. At least this was my impression with Gemma3 models where it often said that the image contains some nudity / sex scenes and therefore it cannot give a description of the image. Never understood the point of this behavior....
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