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If AI data centers are so great, why are they being built in secret?

thebrockovichreport.com

71–80 of 133 posts

Re: If AI data centers are so great, why are they being built in secret?

#71
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who is "we"?? Some places do have water shortages. And regardless of whether the power goes out or not, more power consumption = higher prices + more pollution.

We the people. In places where there are significant water shortages, water hungry data centers are not being built.

Incorrect. Seems like you haven't really investigated this topic at all.

https://www.newsweek.com/map-data-centers-built-drought-hit-...

Re: If AI data centers are so great, why are they being built in secret?

#72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're conflating AI and AI Data centres. What kind of "jobs" does AI data centre creates? More jobs for factory workers who assemble video cards to be shipped and installed in a rack?

Data centers require lots of technicians to install, maintain, and decommission servers. Who do you think installs those video cards?

How many technicians? And from where? Its unclear to me how often this stuff actually needs to be done. And how resilient the overall system is to failure. Is it imperative to swap out one point of failure immediately or can you let them batch up and send Joe from California out qaurterly?

Re: If AI data centers are so great, why are they being built in secret?

#73

One reason is that politicians have vilified them for their own political means. Creating false narratives like they use huge amounts of water, when in fact the cooling is a closed loop system and use less water than a single busy restaurant. They are being used as yet another pawn piece to push inequity and climate change agendas. It’s been quite a successful strategy.

> Creating false narratives like they use huge amounts of water, when in fact the cooling is a closed loop system and use less water than a single busy restaurant

My understanding was that often multiple cooling methods are employed and the ratio of use shifts seasonally; however, that evaporative cooling was still primary method, especially in hotter climates like CA and AZ.

Can you help me understand what type of data center (size, location, etc) uses less water than a busy restaurant?

Re: If AI data centers are so great, why are they being built in secret?

#74
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Give me example where datacenter is bombed in the US?

Wish I could save comments like I can favorite threads.

There's a favourite button for comments if you click the timestamp.

Re: If AI data centers are so great, why are they being built in secret?

#76
post #28
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is false. Evaporative cooling systems consume significant amounts of water and do not reuse it. They can't anyway, recondensing the water would release all the heat they removed by evaporating it.

You don't have to evaporatively cool a data center. You can make a direct trade between energy efficiency and water consumption.

You don’t have to but in hotter climates, especially those with higher energy costs (ca), it’s a lot cheaper to cool evaporatively.

Re: If AI data centers are so great, why are they being built in secret?

#77
post #26
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Source on that water claim? Everything I've seen suggests the opposite.

You believe lies, 99% of data shows that data centers do not use appreciable amounts of water compared to almond farms, or gold courses, or bog standard lawns. https://tech.yahoo.com/science/articles/data-centers-less-wa...

You say that like environmentalists support those things. We don’t. We regularly criticize golf courses as a waste of water and land. We regularly call out the water waste and ecosystem impact of manicured, uniform lawns.

Re: If AI data centers are so great, why are they being built in secret?

#78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are they bunk science? I’m not an environmental expert, but the research papers and policies I’ve read don’t seem to be egregiously wrong. I’m asking genuinely, I’m open to changing my mind here.

Regarding water usage, in general data centers do not use more water than other types of heavy manufacturing > The Georgia data center is only using ~2% of the county’s water. For comparison, a pharmaceutical manufacturing plant is using ~4% of the county’s water. A construction plant for Rivian cars is using about the same amount of water as Meta’s data center. The data center is functioning like any other normal in…

>Regarding water usage, in general data centers do not use more water than other types of heavy manufacturing

Are the claims really that "Data centers use more water than other types of heavy manufacturing"? I dont think so.

Even if thats true, that doesn't mean they cant have a disastrous effect on the local water supply. This isnt a good rebuttal.

Frankly I tend to think the anti-datacenter crowd is overreacting. But I don't think you've addressed the real criticisms being levied.

In some passing research I saw the datacenters do continuously consume water (its not a one time cost like some claims I've read). And smaller size ones may use water equivalent to around 1000 households, and larger ones may consume closer to the equivalent of around 20,000 households. Evidently the massive one in Utah will at least double the state's entire consumption of water.

Can all of these places handle it?

I dont know. But that's the question, not if other types of heavy manufacturing have higher demands. And frankly it's inevitable that at least some locations cannot handle it. Which doens't mean you should be anti-datacenter in general. It means you can't just blanket dismiss the water concern for all locations.

Re: If AI data centers are so great, why are they being built in secret?

#79
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it’s not just ideological. The facts are, even with great strides in efficiency, datacenters use a TON of water and electricity. And without fail that results in increased prices for the local communities who see almost no benefit from these datacenters. Ironically the very same people profiting most off of them are the ones saying they’re going to leave the country if they’re forced to pay anything resembling a…

> datacenters use a TON of water and electricity We have a shortage of neither.

Much of the US is in a drought. While we can generate plenty of electricity, doing so with outdated fossils fuels and ‘natural gases’ introduces a lot of pollution that harms people and the environment. We need to be careful about making these decisions.

But that’s really the problem - “we” don’t get any say in these decisions. A bunch of corrupt politicians and rich oligarchs make these decisions that screw over the rest of us.

And yes, for the record, I’m not uniquely against “AI” data centers. I’m opposed to a lot of other environmentally harmful and wasteful developments. They don’t get hyped up like “AI” does, though.

Re: If AI data centers are so great, why are they being built in secret?

#80
post #48
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Source on that water claim? Everything I've seen suggests the opposite.

Most people who believe that data centers use a lot of water aren't mislead about how much water data centers use, but they are unaware of how much water everything else uses. In the great scheme of things data centers simply do not evaporate that much water. They are too small and too few. As a comparative example, all the data centers in Arizona combined use less than 1/50th of the water evaporated by Arizona's own…

I think also to a degree, even if someone knows those other water use figures, it's easy to see an intrinsic value to the community from those sources. Many people do not see much value in pushing AI to such a degree where all this new compute is required, and others see a negative impact from this activity. It's much easier to argue against something you feel is wrong or bad than something that is arguably crucial for day-to-day life like electricity and staple crops.
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