by growth hacker, in reference to SPAM i would agree.
LOLz. SEO = spam. I see what did there.
I'm tired of that argument. Read some real SEO blogs and you'll see that it's not. Do the investigation.
SEOs are Growth Hackers
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Re: SEOs are Growth Hackers
#12Read in a french accent, it becomes, "SEOs are gross hackers", which is certainly what comes to mind when you have to muddle through a page of w3schools or some other SEO pumped spam-sites results on your way to some actual content.
Some have said that SEOs were not hackers because they could not code, I would argue they are not hackers because their work is all about decreasing the signal/noise ratio for the sake of profit. Hackers should know better.
For hackers the web is a way to free information, not a gimmick to make a quick buck by polluting other people's information streams.
Re: SEOs are Growth Hackers
#13Growth Marketers? Sure. Growth Hackers? Very rarely. I love your posts John, but "Hacker" implies a level of coding in my opinion, and I think most here on HN would agree. As someone who talks to a few dozen SEOs a week, 99% of them cannot code in a fashion needed to be a "Growth Hacker". It's not that they can't contribute to growth, it's just that the traditional methods SEOs use (content, technical fixes, social)…
So hacks are not solid marketing? I think SEOs understand how people and the Internet work, and so we're well positioned to be the ones driving this forward. I've personally helped clients with growth strategies based off of new sections of their site to drive traffic using some very cool technical "hacks" that have worked terrificly well and are search engine friendly.
I should have said "hacking" not "hacks". Hacking implies coding (at least to me), and a growth hacker uses programming skills to drive growth. I just don't see many SEOs doing that. I love SEOs, I think most are fantastic people, but when I think Growth Hacker I don't see the SEOs I talk with all the time.
Re: SEOs are Growth Hackers
#14Growth Marketers? Sure. Growth Hackers? Very rarely. I love your posts John, but "Hacker" implies a level of coding in my opinion, and I think most here on HN would agree. As someone who talks to a few dozen SEOs a week, 99% of them cannot code in a fashion needed to be a "Growth Hacker". It's not that they can't contribute to growth, it's just that the traditional methods SEOs use (content, technical fixes, social)…
So hacks are not solid marketing? I think SEOs understand how people and the Internet work, and so we're well positioned to be the ones driving this forward. I've personally helped clients with growth strategies based off of new sections of their site to drive traffic using some very cool technical "hacks" that have worked terrificly well and are search engine friendly.
"So hacks are not solid marketing?"
How does that follow from "solid marketing doesn't make it a hack"?
"I think SEOs understand how people and the Internet work"
Yet you don't even understand the difference between "every ford is a car" and "every car is a ford" ... huh? What did I just read?
Re: SEOs are Growth Hackers
#15Earlier quoted context omitted.
So hacks are not solid marketing? I think SEOs understand how people and the Internet work, and so we're well positioned to be the ones driving this forward. I've personally helped clients with growth strategies based off of new sections of their site to drive traffic using some very cool technical "hacks" that have worked terrificly well and are search engine friendly.
I should have said "hacking" not "hacks". Hacking implies coding (at least to me), and a growth hacker uses programming skills to drive growth. I just don't see many SEOs doing that. I love SEOs, I think most are fantastic people, but when I think Growth Hacker I don't see the SEOs I talk with all the time.
Fair enough, and I like your term "Growth Marketer". But, isn't all marketing focused towards growth (of something?) I guess if we're going to define it narrowly as user growth, then I could get on board with it.
Re: SEOs are Growth Hackers
#16by growth hacker, in reference to SPAM i would agree.
LOLz. SEO = spam. I see what did there. I'm tired of that argument. Read some real SEO blogs and you'll see that it's not. Do the investigation.
Sorry your feelings are hurt, man.
Real hackers build spam filters and search engine so people can find the information they are looking for. Spewing spam and tricking the search engines to prefer your content are two facets of the same disease.
Re: SEOs are Growth Hackers
#17SEOs should be a laser focused thing, but it is more likely a catch all title for "internet marketers" and the industry seems to be fairly good at latching on to any buzzword in the online marketing world. SEOs last big bandwagon was social media gurus, especially on twitter. Now Growth Hackers? Um... yay... :(
Re: SEOs are Growth Hackers
#18Growth Marketers? Sure. Growth Hackers? Very rarely. I love your posts John, but "Hacker" implies a level of coding in my opinion, and I think most here on HN would agree. As someone who talks to a few dozen SEOs a week, 99% of them cannot code in a fashion needed to be a "Growth Hacker". It's not that they can't contribute to growth, it's just that the traditional methods SEOs use (content, technical fixes, social)…
To go along with this point, SEO is just another tool in your marketing toolkit. To claim that SEO is the sole reason you're going to grow would be a mistake in my opinion.
What about the branding decisions made long before? Or the work put into the marketing framework? The work that went into creatives? And I'm not even getting into the coding that goes into bringing everything together.
SEO can provide growth, but only after you've used everything else in your arsenal to get the platform to the point that you are ready to start optimizing.
Re: SEOs are Growth Hackers
#19Growth Marketers? Sure. Growth Hackers? Very rarely. I love your posts John, but "Hacker" implies a level of coding in my opinion, and I think most here on HN would agree. As someone who talks to a few dozen SEOs a week, 99% of them cannot code in a fashion needed to be a "Growth Hacker". It's not that they can't contribute to growth, it's just that the traditional methods SEOs use (content, technical fixes, social)…
I think people need to start breaking out of their current modes of thinking, and this article represents that. SEOs and Developers have more goals in common than people realize, and the approach is very similar. As long as we're talking about real SEOs, not these "guaranteed spots on Google" jokers, but people like John.
SEOs are there to solve a problem. The problem of course is much deeper than getting your site noticed. It's a vision consisting of strategies with the following goals:
The Basics:
1. Get the most traffic from search engines you can (obviously)
2. Ensure the traffic you get is from the people you want to reach
3. Ensure that you are providing what searchers are looking for
4. Try to build a brand and a vision people can understand
5. Build an audience that will keep returning to your site
Now these things are solid online marketing, sure but there are other goals too, that are more "hacker" in nature.
6. Perform analytics to find out which methods are working
7. Finding the most optimum content to attract new traffic
8. Find what landing pages are creating customers
9. Finding the most optimum paths to lead to engagement
Now this is starting to sound like hacking. We're all problem solvers here. This is gathering information and using it to get the best results possible. Like optimizing routines to save cycles.
As a developer, what are you trying to do for a company?
1. Build software that solves problems for the most people possible (usually)
2. Ensure that your software is targeted towards the people who need it
3. Ensuring your software is solving their problems effectively
4. Making the user interface as effective as it can be (usually by some form of analytics)
5. Finding the best ways to save cycles and utilize hardware (again found with analytics)
Do you see the parallels? This is exactly why I keep one foot in SEO, and one foot in Web Development, because they seem like entirely separate disciplines, but they have more in common than not. The name of the game here is optimization, and both fields strive for optimizing an experience.
Calling someone a software "hacker" means they learn as much as they can about a process and refine it. Tweak, push, pull and stretch. They optimize software to better meet the needs of those who use it. A SEO is a "hacker" because they optimize the website to meet the needs of those who use it. It's not about writing code, it's about finding ways to do more with less.
This is what I gather he's trying to say.
Re: SEOs are Growth Hackers
#20SEOs should be a laser focused thing, but it is more likely a catch all title for "internet marketers" and the industry seems to be fairly good at latching on to any buzzword in the online marketing world. SEOs last big bandwagon was social media gurus, especially on twitter. Now Growth Hackers? Um... yay... :(
Actually we openly hated on social media "gurus", but we respect social media marketers who know what they are talking about.
I'm the only "SEO" I know talking about SEO and growth hacking. I wouldn't say we're latching onto it. Most SEOs seem to disagree with me anyways.