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Meta workers can opt out of being tracked at work up to 30 min

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Re: Meta workers can opt out of being tracked at work up to 30 min

#201

Post by mywittyname »

paradox242 wrote: post #172
crispyambulance wrote: post #20

It's always been hard to know the extent of how draconian tracking actually is (IT pros tend to not talk about it much). In the US, there's the expectation that when you use an employer-provided device that any and all activity on it can be fully monitored/recorded and used against the employee for any reason. In practice, however, few people worry about reasonable amounts web-surfing, being on hacker-news or doing l…

Regarding what is available, imagine a system with reports and dashboards showing a timeline of which application was in focus and for how long, metrics on "activity" like keypresses and mouse clicks, periods of inactivity, lists of websites visited, whether you are joining scheduled zoom meetings, whether your camera was on, when you badged into and out of the office, periodic photos being taken from your webcam, ge…

This is the fruition of Microsoft's dream, since it's the most obvious way to drive copilot usage in a way that A) burns mad tokens, B) is actually useful to paying customers.

Though, I have to wonder if distracting leadership with shit like this will be bad for business in the long-term. Both because leadership will fail to do their jobs, being too busy playing peeping tom on employees, but also because it takes their eyes off the prize - measuring the things that make money.

Re: Meta workers can opt out of being tracked at work up to 30 min

#202

Post by Tangurena2 »

consp wrote: post #123
veber-alex wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. One time my manager did a hour long lecture for our team on how personal growth is important and that we all should expand our horizons and learn new stuff. When I tried to reserve 2 hours A WEEK for studying tasks I got push back that I should do it on my own time. It was a complete joke.

This sounds like the "everything you create in your own time is company property since we cannot distinguish if what you do in your own time isn't company related" clause in some contracts. Under no circumstance is it actable where I live, but it can sure scare the hell out of people and presents a line of thought. Yes, some companies think they can own copyright on the things you write at home.

In the US, the enforceability of that sort of thing depends on the state. Generally, if that state enforces non-competes (other than for selling the business, or managerial staff), then it most likely enforces "you're salaried, so everything you invent belongs to us".

The legal term to search is "work for hire".

Re: Meta workers can opt out of being tracked at work up to 30 min

#203

Post by KaiserPro »

stingraycharles wrote: post #121
caymanjim wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the US, there's the expectation that when you use an employer-provided device that any and all activity on it can be fully monitored/recorded I don't expect this. I know that some companies install spyware on their devices, but I don't expect it, I don't accept it, and if they did it without disclosing it I'd be furious. I understand they're allowed to do it. I'd never work anywhere that did.

I think the keyword is “can”. It is allowed, contrary to eg the EU, where this is not allowed.

> It is allowed, contrary to eg the EU, where this is not allowed.

Its allows in most of the EU apart from germany where there are strict limits.

however you can still record what your users are doing for purposes of detecting fraud. This is where it differs from the USA, where they can do anything because they have no data protection laws.

Re: Meta workers can opt out of being tracked at work up to 30 min

#204

Post by scottious »

__MatrixMan__ wrote: post #105
scottious wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand and sympathize with the motivation here... but not all software engineering is bad. The best job I've ever had was working on cancer research as a software engineer. Brilliant biologists need engineers to help them run their analysis at scale to make discoveries. It was a non-profit, people genuinely cared and the org was good. Pay wasn't FAANG competitive of course, but my point is that not all software…

Is that research still happening? I began pursuing a biology degree on the side maybe 3 years ago so I can do that kind of work. Several of my professors are involved with projects that have recently lost funding due to NIH cuts and can't retain their engineering support. It hasn't been encouraging.

Fair point. I don't know the answer to that question but we definitely live in one of the worst timelines right now.

Re: Meta workers can opt out of being tracked at work up to 30 min

#206

Post by ruined »

jbuhbjlnjbn wrote: post #194
schnitzelstoat wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, many companies don't want the liability issues. Like what happens if I open my bank account on my work computer? You could argue I can expect someone to be watching but I have no warning that someone is? Here in the EU that would probably be an easy lawsuit.

How do you expect an employee to prove their banking actions on the company computer were spied on? I imagine this impossible to prove.

If the employer is spying on everything, it's quite easy.

Re: Meta workers can opt out of being tracked at work up to 30 min

#207

Post by jm4 »

everdrive wrote: post #17

I don't work for Meta, but how many more years do I need to work in tech? I'm in my 40s and my kids are young. I've already set up 529s for them, and am paying for some expensive home upgrades. Maybe when that is finished and I've built up a buffer I can switch industries for the last 5-10 years of my working life. Curious if anyone here has any similar plans.

Already did it. Own a coffee shop now. I still do some tech work, but it's mostly for my own use.

Re: Meta workers can opt out of being tracked at work up to 30 min

#208

Post by mrhottakes »

3form wrote: post #196
caymanjim wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I know they can. I just can't believe it's normalized and that people simply accept it. Good on the EU for pushing back.

I guess from my perspective there are even more dire problems in the US that I'm surprised people accept. But it seems they don't know, or care, or know that they should care. Perhaps it's the lack of proper authoritarian regime in the US' past that drives this. I believe the temporal proximity of such makes people aware of, and angry against, the many traps that such systems leave in their "law", so you can be impri…

Most people need to work to support themselves so it's quite inconvenient to single-handedly solve all of the problems in the US. Suggesting people simply don't know or care is very naive.

Re: Meta workers can opt out of being tracked at work up to 30 min

#209

Post by jbuhbjlnjbn »

caymanjim wrote: post #115
crispyambulance wrote: post #20

It's always been hard to know the extent of how draconian tracking actually is (IT pros tend to not talk about it much). In the US, there's the expectation that when you use an employer-provided device that any and all activity on it can be fully monitored/recorded and used against the employee for any reason. In practice, however, few people worry about reasonable amounts web-surfing, being on hacker-news or doing l…

> In the US, there's the expectation that when you use an employer-provided device that any and all activity on it can be fully monitored/recorded I don't expect this. I know that some companies install spyware on their devices, but I don't expect it, I don't accept it, and if they did it without disclosing it I'd be furious. I understand they're allowed to do it. I'd never work anywhere that did.

You can rest assured a company firing you for what they saw while surveilling your work computer will not be so stupid as to reveil this fact. That would indeed be a liability for them. They will simply invent a different reason for firing.

Because they know it's not allowed (or at least frowned upon), but they decided to do it anyways, the company surveillance is kept secret and downplayed and plausibly denied as much as possible.

Re: Meta workers can opt out of being tracked at work up to 30 min

#210

Post by daveshistory »

MattDamonSpace wrote: post #177
sollewitt wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we need to unionize, across companies. We need to be able to block stuff like this, and to be able to demand that you can’t lay off someone to replace them with AI (bringing US workers rights up to the bar set by China). We also need to be able to hold our leadership to some kind of code of ethics. I don’t want to work for a company that makes kill bots, or can renege on climate pledges.

A heavily unionized tech industry over the last 30yrs would be an interesting counterfactual. IMO the ability for individual employees to negotiate for themselves is a positive? As is being able to get rid of bad performers Unionization would hurt the startup ecosystem, at least at the margins, no?

It would be a hard model to pick up and move over and just drop into place. The trades that have union halls for carpenters, electricians, etc., aren't normally working in anything as unstable or dynamic as tech startups. If I try and think back to how things were thirty years ago I don't think it really applies. Unions are for big shop floors where bosses could fire you on a dime and replace you and then you're SOL. Skills in high demand 30 years meant fine, you could just go work somewhere else just as easily. Who expects to be in the same place for 35 years anyways?
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