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My thoughts after using Clojure for about a month

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Re: My thoughts after using Clojure for about a month

#91

Post by Hammershaft »

Jeaye wrote: post #38

Once you learn Clojure's syntax and semantics, you're no longer bound to the JVM. There's ClojureScript (JS), ClojureCLR, ClojureDart, jank (C++), Basilisp (Python), babashka (SCI), and many others. This means that, if you don't know Java or don't like the JVM, you can likely use Clojure wherever you already feel most comfortable. For the most part, any Clojure code which doesn't use host interop will work on all dia…

As someone who loves Clojure, I wonder about the real portability across host languages. Do you have experience with any of these other dialects? (beyond the obvious CLJS & Babashka?)

Re: My thoughts after using Clojure for about a month

#92

Post by [deleted] »

pdimitar wrote: post #6

With respect, this topic in particular has been beaten to death. I too liked Clojure when I tried it some years ago (agreed on the composition and data structures; both are _great_). But the real value-add is in the runtime, not the syntax. Java has a solid runtime but it's not yet as good as Erlang's, maybe even not up to the standards of Golang -- I am talking concurrency / parallelism here (for memory management I…

[deleted]

Re: My thoughts after using Clojure for about a month

#93

Post by wartijn_ »

tartoran wrote: post #77

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https://web.archive.org/web/20260603023617/https://www.acdw....

Re: My thoughts after using Clojure for about a month

#94

Post by Hammershaft »

gertlabs wrote: post #2

The functional paradigm is a bit uncomfortable at first, but it does make problem solving feel... different. I personally find OOP to be the most intuitive for large scale systems design, but that's just me. Most models do not perform particularly well in Clojure, but OpenAI models fully utilize the power of the language. Subjectively, it kind of seems to match the personality. Data at https://gertlabs.com/rankings?p…

It's fascinating that Clojure has consistently the best performing solutions and yet at the same time such a low success rate.

Do you have an idea as to why that is?

If I had to guess, two things lowering reliability:

A) Balancing parens might be tough on an LLM one-shot.

B) LLMs generate tokens sequentially, but s-expressions mean the first forms to be evaluated in a body are usually the last to be written, so the LLM has to sequentially generate layers of evaluation backwards.

Re: My thoughts after using Clojure for about a month

#95

Post by Hammershaft »

zuzululu wrote: post #57
jimbokun wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that’s your concern you don’t need to be concerned with any technical quality of any language. Just count job postings by language and learn the one with the highest value.

if there isn't any jobs for it it probably doesn't have the appeal or communicate economic value

Clojure programmers tend to be some of the highest paid[1] on average of any language, so I'd lean more towards a lack of appeal.

[1] https://survey.stackoverflow.co/2019#technology-_-what-langu...

Re: My thoughts after using Clojure for about a month

#96

Post by meken »

everforward wrote: post #83
meken wrote: post #4

> I do wish there were an easier way to move in the ]}]})))}-ness of block ends though. I’m not quite sure what this means. How is it different/worse than all parens..? fyi I use paredit and just hit ) and it moves me past any kind of paren/bracket. But even without that you can just hit left and right..?

They are a pain if they get unbalanced if you aren’t using paredit. Like if I vi delete the last line of a function out of habit it’s a pain to get them back in the right order. It’s easier if everything is parens, just hit paren til the errors are gone.

Ah I see. That makes sense.

That’s making me really thankful to be a paredit user.

Re: My thoughts after using Clojure for about a month

#97

Post by meken »

acdw wrote: post #79
meken wrote: post #4

> I do wish there were an easier way to move in the ]}]})))}-ness of block ends though. I’m not quite sure what this means. How is it different/worse than all parens..? fyi I use paredit and just hit ) and it moves me past any kind of paren/bracket. But even without that you can just hit left and right..?

I use Emacs's built-in structural editing bindings, which doesn't have the auto-move-past any kind of paren/bracket thing. Maybe I could add that in. But I was talking about like, when refactoring, I'll maybe change something from a list to a vector, and I have to change the delimiters at front and back. Or, where electric-pair does do the move-past-all-parens thing when I just spam ), it doesn't do that with ]}]}]]}…

I see.

Have you ever tried paredit? It’s pretty much a lifesaver for this kind of thing.

Re: My thoughts after using Clojure for about a month

#98

Post by sorry_i_lisp »

pdimitar wrote: post #63
lgrapenthin wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Clojure is about its rigorous and pragmatic "immutability first" paradigm that you simply don't get from other PLs. LISP is much more than just a runtime syntax, such as its distinct evaluation model and metalinguistic core. The JVM was chosen for Clojure because of its reach and vast ecosystem. People have ported Clojure to other runtimes, even Beam (Clojerl), where it enjoys decent success, too.

All true. And I loved trying Clojure for 3-4 weeks some years ago. Still want Erlang's runtime though i.e. the many green threads with share-nothing architecture that can communicate with each other.

Clojure on JVM with virtual-threads (green threads) and communicating only via core.async channels (CSP inspired) using immutable data structures is pretty neat, FWIW.

Re: My thoughts after using Clojure for about a month

#99

Post by zuzululu »

Hammershaft wrote: post #95
zuzululu wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if there isn't any jobs for it it probably doesn't have the appeal or communicate economic value

Clojure programmers tend to be some of the highest paid[1] on average of any language, so I'd lean more towards a lack of appeal. [1] https://survey.stackoverflow.co/2019#technology-_-what-langu...

> 2019

do a search for indeed jobs

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