Live data from Hacker News

Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release

blog.davidedmundson.co.uk

161–170 of 392 posts

Re: Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release

#161
I installed Arch on my old Mac few months ago, alongside Xorg and i3, they were what I was used to before I switched to Mac about 6 years ago. Back then Wayland was a mess, so I never even bothered to check it out this time.

However, few days ago my non-technical girlfriend wanted to use my laptop, I couldn't see her using i3 so I decided to install Plasma, a proper desktop environment. Lo and behold I couldn't launch it. After searching I found out I needed plasma-x11-session as the default plasma install now included just a Wayland session. I found this a bit surprising, so I did further digging and discovered a huge chunk of Linux desktop community have basically migrated to Wayland since the last time I was here. Very surprising I must say.

So I decided to try Wayland again; I installed Sway and was pleasantly surprised. My screen resolution was automatically calibrated, operations seemed to run more smoothly, my laptop's fan kicked in less frequently (don't know why), and I didn't need a compositor package to fix screen tear (bye Picom). But all these weren't the reasons I decided to stick with Wayland. You see, in x11 I've been having a persistent problem: playing videos from certain websites, notably Twitter, introduces noticeable flickers. I tried everything to get rid of this: media drivers, verifying GPU acceleration, calibrating refresh rates, nothing worked. When I installed Sway I decided to see if this issue got magically fixed, and lo! It was. Wayland has come a long way since I last tried it. Now that I mentioned it, I have just remembered I need to figure out a way to share screens on Google meets, at the moment I seem to be limited to sharing just the Chrome window.

Re: Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release

#162
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, there's SonicDE, but like many such projects it's probably maintained by reactionaries which introduces its own suite of issues around security, code quality, and "will this be maintained in a year, 5 years?"

Is that "reactionaries" in the "we object to certain technology decisions" sense, like the anti-systemd crowd, or in the "software compatible with our political views" like the xlibre project? A quick search (in which I found no evidence of heated controversy) suggests to me that it's the first one.

As far as I know right now, the first, but there's significant overlap. The suckless folks, for instance, have documented fash tendencies. The fact that SonicDE's stated mission is to preserve X11 support is itself a warning sign.

Re: Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release

#163
dumb question, with LLMs being so prolific now, why is this sort of a thing.. a thing? Why not us an agent to maintain code people use, but humans don't have time to keep up with? or at least, are agents being used in FOSS software widely for such ends, at least to reduce the burden and cheapen the cost of delivering quality FOSS experience?

Re: Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release

#166
post #158
post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Screentearing has been solved on x11 for a decade; if nvidia don't support TearFree in the driver, that's an nvidia issue, not an X11 issue.

Until you connect a second monitor.

I have three monitors, works fine for me.

Re: Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release

#167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that "reactionaries" in the "we object to certain technology decisions" sense, like the anti-systemd crowd, or in the "software compatible with our political views" like the xlibre project? A quick search (in which I found no evidence of heated controversy) suggests to me that it's the first one.

As far as I know right now, the first, but there's significant overlap. The suckless folks, for instance, have documented fash tendencies. The fact that SonicDE's stated mission is to preserve X11 support is itself a warning sign.

>The fact that SonicDE's stated mission is to preserve X11 support is itself a warning sign.

Why is it a warning sign? Sounds very useful to keep X11 support for machines that have no good video acceleration like office computers or stuff relying on VNC protocols.

Re: Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release

#169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the issue with imposing semantics of the programming model on the behaviour. User behaviour is the only _real_ thing, it happens. Everything else is in your head. If people in the real world use PiP, then it should happen. The programming model has to bend and change to support it. It simply does not matter if the window manager does something or the window does something. Sure, there is always the security a…

Right right, and I'm not saying users shouldn't be able to have a floating window with video (or whatever) in it. I'm saying it shouldn't be Chrome making that window floating and always visible.

That expectation is really an immediate major UX defect. Most really good GUIs rely on tons and tons of subtle behaviors to work right (that is, to assist the user). That means - counterintuitively - that they need a lot of leeway in how they get to control their own windows to appear on the screen.

Ultimately, the screen is just an unbroken flat surface and windows are just a software level abstraction that has been tortured beyond hope and one that users shouldn't have to micromanage or understand deeply.

If an application needs something to appear at a specific spot in a specific way, the display manager needs to bend over backwards to make it happen or it's broken. Windows understands it. MacOS understands it. X11 understand it, but the community is working hard to throw that wisdom away.

Re: Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release

#170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get it, if you're on google meet, and you want to make one of many videos PiP. How can you ever do that in the window manager? It has to be done in the application! You right click or click on the menu on that particular video, and click Picture in picture. How the heck can the window manager do it?

If things were designed well, it would be as easy as clicking the pin icon on the window border.

How many buttons do you want on a window frame then? The typical 4 buttons already take a lot of space in the title bar. Not everything that seems like a good idea at first glance is actually good design.
Post reply on HN