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Americans don't know how to fight AI so they're fighting data centers

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Re: Americans don't know how to fight AI so they're fighting data centers

#201

Post by castlecrasher2 »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #185
scoofy wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason these data centers are getting built in place people don’t want them is because the towns are broke. The city councils know it, but the residents don’t. The entire point of the last 10 years of Strong Towns was talking about municipal finance, infrastructure costs, and the insolvency of the American suburban town. https://youtu.be/tI3kkk2JdoI

Bullshit. The proposed data center in Utah is projected to use more electricity that what the entire state already uses, on an area larger than Manhattan. The entire state of Utah is not broke. Box Elder County is largely a rural community but it is also not broke.

The proposed Box Elder County data center would double the county's tax revenue, even with the tax breaks. There's a clear incentive for the county to approve it.

Re: Americans don't know how to fight AI so they're fighting data centers

#202

Post by chasd00 »

pantsforbirds wrote: post #189
yoyohello13 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As long as they provide their own power Key point doing a lot of heavy lifting here. Do all these data center buildouts include providing their own power? Seems like the answer is largely no. These companies expect power infrastructure to be supplied by the government, but also want lower taxes.

The mega-scale ones almost all have power as part of the ramp-up process. They are also a massive tax benefit. Looking at the controversial Stratos data center in Box Elder County: Box Elder County baseline (before Stratos): 2026 General Fund revenue: $36.1M 2026 General Fund tax revenue: $21.1M 2026 Municipal Service Fund: $18.8M Stratos (Phase 1): Power: 3 GW Revenue expected: $30M/year Revenue as % of existing cou…

I drove around the Stargate datacenter construction site in Abilene TX late April. They have maybe 5 or 6 of these large gas fired plants being built near the power substation. I'm not 100% sure what they are but i've seen the same things out in Midland/Odessa for power generation. I'm assuming they'll be generating electricity.

/the scale of that site is like nothing i've ever seen. 100s of those giant cooling units lined up and enough piping that my wife said it reminder her of the refineries on the TX coast.

Re: Americans don't know how to fight AI so they're fighting data centers

#203

Post by sheikhnbake »

daheza wrote: post #193
sheikhnbake wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have impeached already, multiple times.

During his last term yes, during this term no they haven't. They could at least be pushing for this, there's a few republicans on the out of Trumps circle, maybe they could make some movement. Instead they sit around and do nothing, letting the crimes take place with no attempt to even declare it as wrong.

Every day is an endless stream of media and commentary on the illegal things he's doing with no accountability. Even in the highly unlikely event of an impeachment conviction, I don't see how that changes anything from a practical standpoint. The DoJ isn't going to enforce the conviction, and military leadership has steadily been replaced with yes-people since the admin took office.

Re: Americans don't know how to fight AI so they're fighting data centers

#205

Post by queenkjuul »

dyauspitr wrote: post #141
everdrive wrote: post #5

Well realistically both are bad. Right now our government is purely dysfunctional, so I'm not sure anyone knows how to fight anything. We have a eunuch Congress, and in response each party just tries to push executive power as far as possible, never once considering that someone they dislike could get elected in the future and use that expanded power in a negative way. I'm sure that right at this moment at least some…

You gotta stop saying each party like they’re both the same

Right: one won't act out of malice, the other won't act out of incompetence

Re: Americans don't know how to fight AI so they're fighting data centers

#206

Post by UtopiaPunk »

TiredOfLife wrote: post #200
UtopiaPunk wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I'm a big idiot, but I think nuclear disarmament is a good geopolitical strategy. The USA has treaties in place pursuing that end on a global scale. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_disarmament

There is currently a war (largest since WW2) in europe that is a direct result of nuclear disarmament.

I understand that the war between Russia and Ukraine, and now Iran and Israel/USA has set back the slow progress that was being made on nuclear disarmament. I don't understand your claim that nuclear disarmament caused a war, though.

Re: Americans don't know how to fight AI so they're fighting data centers

#207

Post by UtopiaPunk »

rickydroll wrote: post #188
jameslars wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like this argument/reasoning more than any I've encountered so far. Thank you! Enabling the disabled is definitely a positive and this is a strong argument for the "pro AI" column.

I think another argument for AI is that it can help pull out patterns and information that are normally hidden from human cognition because we can't encompass that information and keep it in mind. I think one place we should apply this is to the financial system. Use it to detect fraud, tax manipulation games and Other b**** pulled by the 1%ers. With luck, it might even help us find methods of reducing their influenc…

"With luck, it might even help us find methods of reducing their influence and power."

If it started to look like that might happen, the ones with influence and power would adjust the AI behavior. They own and control them.

Re: Americans don't know how to fight AI so they're fighting data centers

#208

Post by runtime_terror »

mjr00 wrote: post #49
runtime_terror wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please, tell how much energy an equal sized vineyard uses compared to a data center?

It takes 870 gallons of water to produce 1 gallon of wine -- if people were genuinely protesting water waste it would be a good idea to start there. Almonds too.

Bro energy is not water

Re: Americans don't know how to fight AI so they're fighting data centers

#209

Post by Kye »

chucksta wrote: post #197
Kye wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most corn is not for eating.

Okay - people like eating popcorn, beef, and driving too.

There's plenty of room for that, all the planned datacenters that will never be finished or started, and enough solar panels to power it in a small fraction of the space used for ethanol corn.

Re: Americans don't know how to fight AI so they're fighting data centers

#210

Post by timacles »

mattas wrote: post #28
jmyeet wrote: post #12

No, it's not a proxy fight about AI. The data centers are just bad, for several, easy-to-explain reasons: 1. They get massive tax breaks; 2. Everyone else pays for the electricity infrastructure that they need to suppor tthem; 3. They pollute water supplies; 4. Everybody's electricity prices go up while the DC has a sweetheart deal that, again, everyone else is paying for; 5. There are no jobs unlike, say, if someone…

In theory, let's say that a data center was proposed that: 1. got no tax breaks 2. self-generated electricity with greenest of green generation 3. did not pollute water supplies 4. made electricity prices go down somehow 5. (can't figure out a theoretical version where there are lots of jobs, sorry) 6. was extremely quiet Would people still be mad about them? I'm trying to figure out if the bad reasons are the _actua…

Really lost here lol. Yes the reasons people don’t like them are because of the negative effects they produce.
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