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Gmail thinks I'm stupid, so I left

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Re: Gmail thinks I'm stupid, so I left

#161

Post by berkes »

apparent wrote: post #5

What surprises me most about gmail and AI is that they seem really quite bad at filtering out obvious spam. I get so many messages from people I have never heard from, on relatively new domains, with endings like "if this isn't relevant for you right now, say "not now" and I'll not circle back" (a clear attempt to allow unsubscribe without using the word). How is it that they haven't figured out how to stop these mes…

They can fix it. They have certainly figured out how. But their "killer feature" is not that you don't receive spam, it's that the mail you send isn't flagged as spam by their fellow oligopolists.

We're now at the place where it's virtually impossible to run your own mailserver and have the mail delivered, consistently at Gmail and Outlook/Live/Hotmail. At least not without hours a month tuning, re-configuring, monitoring etc.

Basically, Gmail, Apple Mail, Microsoft, Yahoo (and to lesser extent, Fast-email, proton, or one of the handfull of dedicated email providers) have cemented an oligopoly. You must invest serious infrastructure, time and effort, or else your mail will be /dev/nulled (at random, often).

This "anti-spam" works, reasonably well. Because Gmail can now trust that Microsoft has measures in place to disencourage new accounts from sending large amounts of mails - and vice versa. Obviously Gmail can trust other Gmail accounts. And so they have a win-win-win.

win: No need for heavy, resource-intensive spam-training or scanning for the bulk of incoming mail - if its from a fellow BigTech, let it through. Win: an almost impossible high barrier to entry for any serious competitors. Win: Lock in, because anyone wishing to move will see their email not reach the inboxes of users at other Big Tech - aka the vast majority of inboxes.

Re: Gmail thinks I'm stupid, so I left

#162

Post by dhdjddhx »

green_wheel wrote: post #71

> This time I’m doing things the right way by connecting my own domain to a mail host. I’m currently with Fastmail since they were by far the most popular option when I asked for suggestions on the fediverse. Question for the general public: why Fastmail over Proton?

I have anecdotally heard that proton has some more deliverability issues than Fastmail since it’s more preferred by scammers for its privacy features. That influenced my decision since I was probably already going to face some delivery challenges being on a custom domain.

Re: Gmail thinks I'm stupid, so I left

#163

Post by virgil_disgr4ce »

bigfishrunning wrote: post #110
soperj wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what do you use as your client?

I'm not the poster you're replying to, but i did the same thing and use Purelymail (and their web interface, which i think is open-source) it's a very cheap no-nonsense service, i recommend it

+1 for Purelymail. Most things that appear to be too good to be true are not true. Purelymail is the real deal.

Re: Gmail thinks I'm stupid, so I left

#164

Post by PyWoody »

triMichael wrote: post #10

While I haven't had this issue with Gmail, I recently got a new computer and the first two weeks for full of moments like this. It's shocking to me how much we've let popups go rampant on everything. Perhaps the worst offender is Windows update, as it won't even let you use your own computer without clicking through 10 screens refusing all sorts of products they are trying to push on you.

  Does Microsoft understand consent?
  
  [ ] Yes
  [ ] Ask again later

Re: Gmail thinks I'm stupid, so I left

#165

Post by univocal »

You know what's even worse? That if he had tried any of those "here look! we can write it for you!" tools he’d have found out that they don't even work.

Gmail summaries are nonsensical most of the times. The suggested replies completely miss the intent of the original message I was trying to write.

Most AI integrations around are basically alpha-quality code, that if there wasn't this forced pressure to adopt AI, AI, AI at any cost, they wouldn't have been shipped in this state at all.

Re: Gmail thinks I'm stupid, so I left

#166

Post by ajross »

obvi8 wrote: post #153

I don’t understand. Do the people generating ‘content’ with LLMs themselves enjoy pissing away their own time ingesting the output they’re asking an LLM to produce? For all the amazing creative work carefully (or not) crafted by humans directly, you’d rather have the derived token sausage? Writing with intent to deceive a human, and otherwise generating ‘art’ with models is the laziest application thereof, and I’d ar…

> [Stupid Other People] enjoy pissing away their own time ingesting the [LLM] output

Stop. Yes yes, you are a fine writer with excellent communication skills. You would never stoop so low as to allow a mere machine to write for you, and no such device is going to have anything but the most banal suggestions you would accept (I mean, even the most elite of us make the occasional typo, amirite?).

Many people (most, really) hate writing. It's just difficult, for the same reason that you probably avoid, I dunno, dancing or public performance. People have different skills.

And people who hate writing and know they aren't that great at it still know that their email is likely to land in the inbox of a snob like you. So... they ask for help where they can get it.

To wit: be nice. You're letting your ego drive you to some unpleasant places. There's a fine line between chuckling at inappropriately-AI-enhanced communication and just being an asshole.

Re: Gmail thinks I'm stupid, so I left

#167

Post by darkwater »

neogodless wrote: post #156
green_wheel wrote: post #71

> This time I’m doing things the right way by connecting my own domain to a mail host. I’m currently with Fastmail since they were by far the most popular option when I asked for suggestions on the fediverse. Question for the general public: why Fastmail over Proton?

Comparing a few based on cheapest annual plan that includes custom email domains: mailbox.org € 30.00 / $34.71 10GB+5GB storage, ample aliases, multiple domains, up to 10 family accounts proton.me € 41.04 / $47.88 15GB storage, 1 account, 10 encrypted email addresses, 1 domain fastmail.com € 51.44 / $60.00 60 GB storage, 1 account, multiple domains For more accounts/users (e.g. Proton Unlimited or Fastmail Family), t…

You need to add VAT to the Fastmail price, I just renewed 1 year for exactly 60€.

Re: Gmail thinks I'm stupid, so I left

#168

Post by 1e1a »

PyWoody wrote: post #164
triMichael wrote: post #10

While I haven't had this issue with Gmail, I recently got a new computer and the first two weeks for full of moments like this. It's shocking to me how much we've let popups go rampant on everything. Perhaps the worst offender is Windows update, as it won't even let you use your own computer without clicking through 10 screens refusing all sorts of products they are trying to push on you.

Does Microsoft understand consent? [ ] Yes [ ] Ask again later

Apple does this as well with MacOS update notifications

  Upgrade to MacOS Tahoe?
  
  [ ] Yes
  [ ] Remind me later

Re: Gmail thinks I'm stupid, so I left

#169

Post by sebmellen »

why_at wrote: post #151

I can appreciate LLMs for some use cases, but writing emails for the user is the one that really baffles me. It's one thing if you don't speak English well and could use some help making yourself understood, but the amount of native speakers using this is so strange to me. How does this help you? If you can write to the LLM telling it what kind of email to write, you might as well just write the email.

The most frustrating thing to me is to receive a 5-paragraph-plus email that was clearly written with some AI that filled in the email with vapid and useless talking points, like "Let me know if you need any other blah blah blah; While there is clearly a need for system improvement, we are working hard to address the underlying and fundamental issue; This is a lesson that it's not just a feature, it's a critical path for our users, etc."

My theory is that people are fundamentally averse to the thought and effort it takes to write a good quality email. Then there’s probably some underlying belief that more volume shows more effort, which people will perceive positively. And finally, there's the worry that if you write the email yourself, you might make some embarrassing wording, grammar, or spelling mistake.

Re: Gmail thinks I'm stupid, so I left

#170

Post by phyzix5761 »

I haven't used the Gmail UI in almost a decade now; I connect using my own email client. But this sounds terrible. I think the incentives at Google haven't changed. Engineers want promotions and in many teams how you achieve that is through pushing features with tons of user engagement. The features tend to include few options to opt out.
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