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Larry Ellison: "Citizens will be on their best behavior because we’re recording"

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Re: Larry Ellison: "Citizens will be on their best behavior because we’re recording"

#111

Post by 01100011 »

Nvidia has been marketing "smart cities" for years. I've mentioned it several times but it never gets traction. If you think the AI build out is about consumer benefits you're an idiot. It's about control. AI is going to cement the power structures of the world and give authorities powers they've dreamed of since antiquity. It's about surveillance, manipulation and deception.

I work making AI shovels. I benefit a tiny bit from all this but know it's just a small crumb in exchange for the buffet of freedom.

Re: Larry Ellison: "Citizens will be on their best behavior because we’re recording"

#112

Post by ibejoeb »

standardUser wrote: post #48

Sometimes I wonder, if we were actually allowed to engage in the consensual drugs and sex that constitutes 95% of the activity people want to "get away with", would our societal response to infringements on our privacy be even weaker than it currently is?

I think the real risk here is the impact of perfect enforcement of all the tiny things. Enforcement against every minor unsanctioned activity can be self executing with AI. You're going downhill at 10 MPH over the speed limit before you brake, and the camera, if not the vehicle itself, cites you. You cross the street outside of the crosswalk and now you've got 2 strikes. There's nothing to contest, because you acted unlawfully.

Re: Larry Ellison: "Citizens will be on their best behavior because we’re recording"

#113

Post by f-serif »

Bangladesh is one of the best example of it.

People usually don't want to follow traffic laws on road. Now that we have AI camera recording and AI fine system, people try their best to follow traffic laws. We are becoming Japan following traffic laws in certain areas.

Police usually were scared to fine million dollars cars (because the car owner might be part of something higher power and they could lose their job). Now they gossip on roadside and let AI do it's job.

To HN people surveillance is scarry. But to us, surveillance is blessings.

Re: Larry Ellison: "Citizens will be on their best behavior because we’re recording"

#114

Post by vondur »

squidsoup wrote: post #66
giancarlostoro wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's definitely people who blindly praise and romanticize China and ignore how dystopian all the monitoring systems there are, there is essentially no privacy. Even chat apps are infiltrated or Chinese run in some way, shape, or form.

While that’s true, the Chinese government does also seem to be motivated to keep the cost of housing and food low for its citizens, and provide services and facilities for the public good.

Ha, you really believe that? You can't live in area without the permission of the Government. The current Chinese regime seems to be really going kinda crazy with their new leader. They've lost their more practical leadership since the new guy has consolidated power.

Re: Larry Ellison: "Citizens will be on their best behavior because we’re recording"

#115

Post by antonvs »

jstummbillig wrote: post #53
jasonvorhe wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And Google, Meta, etc. None of the big companies habe your interests at heart.

What a strange thing to say. Why would they? Do you have their interest at heart? Do you have the average persons interest at heart? Again: Why would you? That's by definition not how interests work. And that is roughly fine (albeit a kinder universe would be nice).

> That's by definition not how interests work.

It can be. For example, see "enlightened self interest" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enlightened_self-interest), a concept that the companies in question seem to discard in favor of short-term profits.

The Golden Rule "do unto others" is an example of this concept, and it answers your question "why would you?"

> And that is roughly fine (albeit a kinder universe would be nice).

You're confusing the status quo with what must be. It's possible for people to have a sane interpretation of self-interest. We should do a better job of reeducating and/or removing from society the people who don't seem capable of that.

Re: Larry Ellison: "Citizens will be on their best behavior because we’re recording"

#116

Post by overfeed »

bilbo0s wrote: post #94
poszlem wrote: post #60

"Intellectuals are naturally attracted by the idea of a planned society, in the belief that they will be in charge of it." — Roger Scruton

In this case though, the nerds are in charge of it. They created and own it. I mean even the lawyers are subordinate to them at this point.

> I mean even the lawyers are subordinate to them at this point

They could all be in jail by this time tomorrow if Todd Blanche - a lawyer - wills it. Riding the authoritarianism tiger is risky business.

Re: Larry Ellison: "Citizens will be on their best behavior because we’re recording"

#117

Post by maxglute »

It's not the recording that matters, it's the enforcement. In PRC, you get your jaywalking mugshot on the intersection jumbotron, that social humiliation is enough to get people in line and establish public order. I wager shameless (individualistic) Americans would troll such methods, i.e. it would be counter productive in US cultural contexts... which is bleak because it means would need even harsher big brother enforcement methods to deter. Considering Chinese aunties fisty cuff with cops on the street, in US they'd get ventilated - the kind of shenanigans US LE would have to pull to enforce best behavior compliance is going to be much more violent.

Re: Larry Ellison: "Citizens will be on their best behavior because we’re recording"

#118

Post by lurk2 »

doctorpangloss wrote: post #31
bpodgursky wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you frame it this way in your mind you will be surprised when people pick surveillance over public disorder. If you don't like that world (I don't either) you can't bury your head in the sand about the problems it is solving, you need a "No, but... " framing where you give answers that actually work. There is a ground-level appeal of the China-style panopticon because it delivers public order and clean streets. La…

Haha, ground level appeal in a one party government? How would you know? Of course someone likes China's system, but who? How do you know ?

He’s talking about shifting attitudes towards China online, not within China itself.

Re: Larry Ellison: "Citizens will be on their best behavior because we’re recording"

#119

Post by testfoobar »

EastLondonCoder wrote: post #71

I think the really dangerous part here is not just “surveillance bad”. It is that AI removes the labour cost that used to limit surveillance. CCTV was already a problem, but someone still had to watch it, search it, interpret it, escalate it. AI changes that. It makes surveillance searchable, scalable and administratively useful. The shift is from “you may be observed” to “your behaviour can be continuously machine-i…

Your comments have two standout points for me:

1. Boring Orwell: Continuous surveillance is already present in the form of cameras in streets, shops, schools, cars, buses, homes, etc. AI can and absolutely will be used to continuously monitor these feeds.

2. Accountable power: Surely you're joking?!

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