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Americans don't know how to fight AI so they're fighting data centers

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161–170 of 219 posts

Re: Americans don't know how to fight AI so they're fighting data centers

#161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the farms! is the new but her emails!

Even unprofitable farms can produce edible food. A datacenter is a machine that uses electricity to make heat and no other physical prouducts. That's a tough justification to make to people who live near one.

I really dont get this. The US is nowhere close to facing a food shortage. If all the desert farms in the west closed beef and a few vegetables would get a tiny bit more expensive. People act like if we didnt do destructive desert farming we'd have to implement rationing.

Re: Americans don't know how to fight AI so they're fighting data centers

#162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What reigning in would you do if you had the power to do it for the US?

I'm no expert, but I'd have a few prerogatives: - Look into ways to restricting executive power, or more rightly revert it to its previous state as described by the constitution. - Repeal the pardon power (or at least seriously amend it) - Find a way to limit the use or impact of executive orders. I'm honestly not sure of the best way to do this, but executive orders have exploded basically at the same rate that cong…

Oh sorry I just mean: with respect to AI

Re: Americans don't know how to fight AI so they're fighting data centers

#163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Water consumption and localized atmospheric heating have been cited elsewhere as drawbacks. There have been some articles citing noise/vibration pollution (subsonic?) but I'm not completely convinced on that front. Personally, I would add electric grid load to the list. In the worst case, if your local municipality sides with business over the little guy, that means potential brownouts and water shortages for you.

Farming consumes more water than datacenters. Infrasound is pseudoscience. The biggest issue imo is that they use a ton of electricity and this country has forgotten how to expand electricity supply so prices go up. The solution to that is to create more electricity though, not ban datacenters

Make the companies constructing a DC pay a bond or whatever for the new power plant, and don't give them tax subsidies. Easy enough?

Re: Americans don't know how to fight AI so they're fighting data centers

#164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even unprofitable farms can produce edible food. A datacenter is a machine that uses electricity to make heat and no other physical prouducts. That's a tough justification to make to people who live near one.

I really dont get this. The US is nowhere close to facing a food shortage. If all the desert farms in the west closed beef and a few vegetables would get a tiny bit more expensive. People act like if we didnt do destructive desert farming we'd have to implement rationing.

Food prices rising has been a political hot topic for the last few years. Voters would have your head for any obvious action that made beef get more expensive, especially NIMBY groups and current ranchers.

Re: Americans don't know how to fight AI so they're fighting data centers

#165
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have long said that AI is an excuse, but in reality people are not laid off for AI. People are laid off for the economy or "restructuring", and they use the fad of the day - which is AI these days - as a reason. If it was AI they would take those extra people to get more done. I know of no company that doesn't have more work than they have people. (but they lack the funds/ROI to pay more people)

how is AI an excuse when it can replace team of 10 people to 3? It is very efficient in doing menial jobs for sure.

So put those 7 "extra" people to work on something else.

Re: Americans don't know how to fight AI so they're fighting data centers

#166
post #31

Data centers are easy to fight against because there is no constituency really pulling for them. They create only a handful of jobs. Ultimately the entire thing is a waste of time, data centers can be built basically anywhere, and that's why a lot of them are moving to rural red states where they welcome the construction. The fight against AI should just be about taxing token usage. We should also tax the hell out of…

> rural red states where they welcome the construction The state legislatures might be all for it, but I can say as someone who lives in South Texas, the actual communities are up in arms against datacenters. Of course there's lots of irony in that one of the reasons the datacenters like the area is that there is a gas pipeline that the locals welcomed that can be used to run turbines.

Yea well thats the thing about red states. Local opposition doesnt mean shit in the face of business interests.

Re: Americans don't know how to fight AI so they're fighting data centers

#167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On this note, I'm actually confused about why datacenters raise electric costs. Why doesn't the data center bear an extra cost for the added infrastructure? If I build a house on undeveloped land and the electric company needs to run lines, do I also (in a much smaller way than a data center) increase the costs for all other customers? Is everything always just spread evenly?

Your house goes through different approval processes than large infrastructure processes. You also pay a different rate than commercial customers. Energy hungry infrastructure projects pay something called a "large-load tariff" to try to contain their second-order costs from leaking into residential rate payers pay for. It's not perfect, so a datacenter project could trigger some upgrades that cause rates to go up. T…

> rates are spiking even in places with zero datacenters.

The energy grid is largely interconnected in the US. Just because there arent any datacenters in your state doesnt mean anything because the ones in the next state over could be on the same grid. End of the day prices are about supply and demand, same as always. When a huge amount of demand is added and supply is unchanged prices will go up.

Re: Americans don't know how to fight AI so they're fighting data centers

#168
post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only power congress theoretically has to impact the administration is that of the purse. But the admin has repeatedly ignored such restrictions. This check on power also loses it's teeth when the oligarchs align themselves behind the executive branch.

They can also impeach

They have impeached already, multiple times.

Re: Americans don't know how to fight AI so they're fighting data centers

#169
post #138

At the end it's a facility that costs the locals and benefits non-locals. Even if AI is the truly greatest productivity booster, the benefits are still distributed over all its customers, and the environmental impacts are mostly local. It's like if someone is building a landfill in your hometown to bury the whole country's waste. Or it's like a factory that creates zero job.

How is this different than a cornfield? A data center is probably a better neighbor because it doesn't kick up dirt, pesticides, and fertilizer into the air.

There's a lot of ways a datacenter in your backyard might be less desirable than a corn-field.

Most data center cooling works by evaporation. Hot air or hot water from the servers passes through cooling towers, and water is deliberately evaporated into the atmosphere to carry heat away. That water vapor rises, disperses, and eventually falls as precipitation, but not locally, and not on any useful timescale for the watershed it was drawn from. So the water still exists, but it's been removed from the local hydrological system

Then, there's the ecological angle. Even when companies claim green credentials, locals often scrutinize the actual power mix feeding the facility. If the regional grid is coal or gas-heavy, a data center's carbon footprint can be substantial. There are also concerns about diesel backup generators, potential groundwater contamination, and heat discharge.

Then there's an increased power bills for locals situation, although this one is not as clear and is often disputed. The argument typically goes something like this: utilities operate on cost-recovery models. If a massive new load comes onto the grid and requires infrastructure upgrades like new substations, transmission lines, grid hardening. Those capital costs get socialized across all ratepayers. The data center pays for its energy consumption, but not necessarily for the full cost of the infrastructure built to serve it. That gap gets spread to everyone else's bills.

Re: Americans don't know how to fight AI so they're fighting data centers

#170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only power congress theoretically has to impact the administration is that of the purse. But the admin has repeatedly ignored such restrictions. This check on power also loses it's teeth when the oligarchs align themselves behind the executive branch.

That's not true at all, they could: - impeach - pass new laws / revise old laws - hold real hearings - amend the constitution Now practically will this congress do so? No, but in principle they wield more power than the executive.

In the context of the current admin:

- They have impeached already, multiple times.

- Congress has no means of enforcing any laws they pass aside from trying to withhold funding.

- Hearings are political circus at best with no real consequences. See: 0 US based Epstein abusers in any form of incarceration.

- ah yes, amending the constitution. a very realistic and responsive option

Since none of these are practical, then congress wields no practical power. In principle and technicalities are useless. Even if the dems were able to take a progressive super majority, unless they passed a law granting congress law enforcement powers w/ funding they're declawed.

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