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Squillions: How money laundering won

lrb.co.uk

31–40 of 238 posts

Re: Squillions: How money laundering won

#31
post #12

In Italy there is a very aggressive law against money laundering: if you withdraw more than 1k cash, it triggers a call to the police. I know it's the same if you do it over multiple days. I think it has been relaxed a little bit later on, but in Italy everybody does the "I'll charge you X less without VAT" (which is 23% in Italy, I should point out), so this is also fighting that.

You mean they implemented laws under the guise of "money laundering". They just want to track what you spend your money on, that's step one. Step two is to restrict what you can spend your money on, although this is a partial side effect of part 1.

> Step two is to restrict what you can spend your money on

Where do people get these ideas? How do they sincerely hold them?

No non-religious government wants to restrict what you can spend your money on. They want to get a cut of your money, but otherwise it's strictly better for them if you spend as much of it as possible.

If they don't want you to have things, they just attack those things directly, like hard drugs or weapons. No need to restrict your ability to purchase.

Re: Squillions: How money laundering won

#32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where cash is stigmatized? I haven't seen such a place except PRC. Most people want government to be able to seize assets of baddies. It is possible with cash, it is possible with banks, hardly possible with crypto. The technology to scam people at scale with untraceable emoney is not everybody's cup of tea. Speaking from a country that invaded its neighbor, for our government (as well as north korea) it is lovely to…

>Most people want government to be able to seize assets of baddies. I dont, not while they get to decide who the baddies are.

This is correct attitude, for example some people actually got arresred for supporting ukraine efforts on war. I disagree that all my assets must be seized because i donated few bucks for sake protecting invaded country.

Ukraine event's is prime example why finanical privacy is important. I think we're solving taxing issue from wrong angle, we should be look this another angle: Merchants should be identifiable and taxable while customer stay private. GNU's solution "Talor" is very interesting and promising.

Re: Squillions: How money laundering won

#33
post #30
post #29

In this day and age "money laundering" just means "not bending over and letting the state tax you to oblivion". TFA is just scare mongering. People need to learn about Bitcoin.

> People need to learn about Bitcoin. Indeed. Bitcoin is now a major player in the money laundering business. NFTs are so much better than fake pocelain!

> I can invalidate Bitcoin, by comparing it to NFTs.

I'm sorry, that's not how it works.

Re: Squillions: How money laundering won

#34

Here's an anecdotal thought: AML laws surprisingly work well to discourage offline transactions by tax-paying citizens, helping maximize tax reporting and improve tax collection. As a result, governments continue to strengthen and expand laws in that direction.

It used to be super common for many small businesses to be cash only or a 10% discount for cash. Likely the main driver for this was tax avoidance. I haven't seen a cash only business since covid.

With a dwindling number of legitimate cash users, any business that is pulling in huge sums of cash well beyond the average is going to look increasingly suspicious.

Re: Squillions: How money laundering won

#35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Luxury cars in particular are routinely bought and sold for cash. Cash ? As in hundred dollar bills?

Yes, duffel bags full. But it doesn't take too many cash purchases that are not inline with your tax returns before somebody is going to start snooping around. edit: although sometimes, a lot longer than one might expect.

Disappointly small bag to buy most cars with 100 dollar bills

Re: Squillions: How money laundering won

#36
post #5

The state's ability to track and criminalize people based on financial behaviors through deputized financial intermediaries is new, and temporary. Outside of this social graph, where private cash transactions still exist, the state lacks power and relies on stigmatizing cash ownership, consumption, movement. This stigma is largely successful and ubiquitous but inconsequential to anybody that matters or has a lawyer o…

Where cash is stigmatized? I haven't seen such a place except PRC. Most people want government to be able to seize assets of baddies. It is possible with cash, it is possible with banks, hardly possible with crypto. The technology to scam people at scale with untraceable emoney is not everybody's cup of tea. Speaking from a country that invaded its neighbor, for our government (as well as north korea) it is lovely to…

>Where cash is stigmatized? I haven't seen such a place except PRC.

I don't know about stigma, per se, but there are a few places where businesses have a pretty explicit legal right to refuse cash, UK, Netherlands, Sweden, US. Oddly in PRC refusing cash is illegal.

Re: Squillions: How money laundering won

#37
It's very simple, there is more incentive for money laundering than there is fighting it. It's the same reason there are more lawyers working for large companies vs small guys. The invisible hand that determines the structure of our society.

Re: Squillions: How money laundering won

#38

It's very simple, there is more incentive for money laundering than there is fighting it. It's the same reason there are more lawyers working for large companies vs small guys. The invisible hand that determines the structure of our society.

In war the side that knows what they are fighting for generally wins.

Re: Squillions: How money laundering won

#39
post #10

In Italy there is a very aggressive law against money laundering: if you withdraw more than 1k cash, it triggers a call to the police. I know it's the same if you do it over multiple days. I think it has been relaxed a little bit later on, but in Italy everybody does the "I'll charge you X less without VAT" (which is 23% in Italy, I should point out), so this is also fighting that.

In other words, the Italian police are flooded with more reports than they could possibly investigate.

Presumably the police computer system is told about the transfers automatically and it has no capacity problems. I know my own country has long had such a system and these days is almost entirely cashless.

Re: Squillions: How money laundering won

#40
post #5

The state's ability to track and criminalize people based on financial behaviors through deputized financial intermediaries is new, and temporary. Outside of this social graph, where private cash transactions still exist, the state lacks power and relies on stigmatizing cash ownership, consumption, movement. This stigma is largely successful and ubiquitous but inconsequential to anybody that matters or has a lawyer o…

Where cash is stigmatized? I haven't seen such a place except PRC. Most people want government to be able to seize assets of baddies. It is possible with cash, it is possible with banks, hardly possible with crypto. The technology to scam people at scale with untraceable emoney is not everybody's cup of tea. Speaking from a country that invaded its neighbor, for our government (as well as north korea) it is lovely to…

Everyone in China has to and will accept cash in practice (no idea about big transactions though). Cash is also more frequent among locals in remote places.

Also if you're talking about Russia, people are switching back to cash en masse because cashless transfer between people is essentially half-criminalized. You run the risk of getting all your bank accounts blocked instantly on mere suspicion or for things outside of your control, with almost no real rules, accountability, or practical ways to push back. It's the way to avoid the runaway government process in the first place.

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