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Einstein's list of conditions for staying together with his wife

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Re: Einstein's list of conditions for staying together with his wife

#71

Post by lostlogin »

redthrowaway wrote: post #36
DanielBMarkham wrote: post #14

I had heard a while ago that Einstein was a womanizer. Looks like he was a demanding jerk as well. Just goes to show that there is usually a huge difference between what we think of historical figures and how they actually were. It's interesting how much we want our heroes to be pure and spotless -- unlike any other humans we encounter.

Keep in mind that this was in 1919, when the accepted roles of men and women in marriages were very different. It's important, when reading historical documents, not to judge those discussed within by modern standards.

Einstein was quite capable of thinking outside the norm. It's lacking context, but this sure doesn't look good.

Re: Einstein's list of conditions for staying together with his wife

#72

Post by lostlogin »

ams6110 wrote: post #42
tadfisher wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not necessarily; their mothers were sisters, and their fathers were cousins on their father's side (so both Albert and Elsa had the surname "Einstein").

Funny that when we think of inbreeding we think of low IQ as one of the common characteristics.

I think Hitler falls into the category too - I seem to recall that his parents were distant cousins.

Re: Einstein's list of conditions for staying together with his wife

#74

Post by csomar »

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #14

I had heard a while ago that Einstein was a womanizer. Looks like he was a demanding jerk as well. Just goes to show that there is usually a huge difference between what we think of historical figures and how they actually were. It's interesting how much we want our heroes to be pure and spotless -- unlike any other humans we encounter.

I had heard a while ago that Einstein was a womanizer.

You'll need sufficient proof for that. Not just "heard".

Looks like he was a demanding jerk as well.

Really? Asking for 3 meals a day and laundry? Maybe he's the one responsible for paying all the bills. Don't read half the story.

Also, I think their relationship is broken already, they were just keeping an "MVP" for the children.

You will undertake not to belittle me in front of our children, either through words or behavior.

That could also tell that the wife is not that innocent too.

Re: Einstein's list of conditions for staying together with his wife

#75

Post by pyre »

csomar wrote: post #74
DanielBMarkham wrote: post #14

I had heard a while ago that Einstein was a womanizer. Looks like he was a demanding jerk as well. Just goes to show that there is usually a huge difference between what we think of historical figures and how they actually were. It's interesting how much we want our heroes to be pure and spotless -- unlike any other humans we encounter.

I had heard a while ago that Einstein was a womanizer. You'll need sufficient proof for that. Not just "heard". Looks like he was a demanding jerk as well. Really? Asking for 3 meals a day and laundry? Maybe he's the one responsible for paying all the bills. Don't read half the story. Also, I think their relationship is broken already, they were just keeping an "MVP" for the children. You will undertake not to belitt…

IIRC, he cheated on his wife with his cousin. I don't have web reference. I went to an Einstein exhibit (at the OMSI) that had a bunch of hand-written letters and such by him (in addition to attempting to make his theories more accessible). Though 'cheated' might be a little relative. I think that he may have just been spending a lot of time with her and writing her love-letters rather than just sleeping with her.

Here are some quick links I turned up on the exhibit:

http://eastpdxnews.com/general-news-features/explore-space-a...

http://www.flickr.com/groups/alberteinstein/pool/tags/omsi/

The Flickr link has a bunch of photos of the documents, but I don't none of them are labelled, so it may be a bit time-consuming to search for anything specific.

Re: Einstein's list of conditions for staying together with his wife

#76

Post by peterarmstrong »

ekianjo wrote: post #62
victorhn wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You must live in another world, as Einstein is maybe the most popular scientist/genius in any part of the world.

I do not question the popularity of Einstein, I just wonder why the term "hero" is applied to him in the parent post. Why would Einstein be considered a "hero" compared to other scientists ?

His hair. Seriously.

Re: Einstein's list of conditions for staying together with his wife

#77

Post by chromic »

andrewfelix wrote: post #66
stickfigure wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you automatically assume he is a jerk? Do you know more about his personal life than what was mentioned here? How do we know she wasn't a horrible person and this is actually a gracious response? I really have no idea, but I think it's pretty unfair to make character judgements from a single note out of context. Human relationships are complex.

The OP is making a judgement based on the evidence he has, not on the evidence he doesn't. You on the other hand are attempting to counter his argument with no evidence at all. If you want to counter the argument, present contrary evidence.

He wanted to remain together just for the children. It's pretty safe to conclude he would not have done so if he had no children and that her presence is detrimental to him in some fashion. The terms listed are harsh, but they reflect his priorities quite well. Calling him a jerk is a bit out of line when he's prioritizing his children highly enough to try being a father when that isn't his most important goal.

Re: Einstein's list of conditions for staying together with his wife

#78

Post by tadfisher »

ams6110 wrote: post #42
tadfisher wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not necessarily; their mothers were sisters, and their fathers were cousins on their father's side (so both Albert and Elsa had the surname "Einstein").

Funny that when we think of inbreeding we think of low IQ as one of the common characteristics.

The actual consequences of inbreeding are overblown by most. First cousins have a 12.5 percent chance of passing on a set of recessive gene expressions, which is about the same chance as an ordinary mother in her 40s.

Re: Einstein's list of conditions for staying together with his wife

#79

Post by pfortuny »

noonespecial wrote: post #60
aufreak3 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is more complicated I think even in the case of Einstein. The period of strained relationship mentioned coincides with the period during which he was building up General Relativity (which he published in 1916). Given the intensity of work that would've been needed for that (all that gorgeous new math and physical insights!) with wrong turns to avoid in every move, it is well conceivable that his marriage was place…

I like to think of it backwards; If I knew that I had a contribution to make to humanity as great as Einstein's, would I willingly sacrifice my relationship with my family to make it?

I hope I would not. The future is irrelevant because unknown in the face of a single present person.

Re: Einstein's list of conditions for staying together with his wife

#80

Post by pfortuny »

redthrowaway wrote: post #36
DanielBMarkham wrote: post #14

I had heard a while ago that Einstein was a womanizer. Looks like he was a demanding jerk as well. Just goes to show that there is usually a huge difference between what we think of historical figures and how they actually were. It's interesting how much we want our heroes to be pure and spotless -- unlike any other humans we encounter.

Keep in mind that this was in 1919, when the accepted roles of men and women in marriages were very different. It's important, when reading historical documents, not to judge those discussed within by modern standards.

Cultivared men were not jerks then as a general rule.
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