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What appear to be biochemical processes may be a natural feature of geology

quantamagazine.org

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Re: What appear to be biochemical processes may be a natural feature of geology

#11

Reminds me of the Gamma Forest at Brookhaven National Labs. From 1961 thru 1978 they irradiated a section of the pine barrens forest with a cesium-137 source just to see what would happen. It sterilized the soil and hardly anything grows there, almost 50 years later. https://maps.app.goo.gl/pJYr6qiZnMdVwLJS6 https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/brookhaven-gamma-forest https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsuiLxcDuHY&t=925s

That's a bit odd - why wouldn't wind blown non-sterile organic matter from the surrounding forest re-colonize the area?

Re: What appear to be biochemical processes may be a natural feature of geology

#12
post #2

It feels next would be trying isolate the component that make CO2. Try to use smaller sample. Put them under microscope, etc.

I might be dumb, but I figured they would just continuously subdivide the sample until they isolated it. Maybe CO2 sensors wont be sensitive enough?

Re: What appear to be biochemical processes may be a natural feature of geology

#13
post #7
post #6

This is huge news if true for evaluating soil experiments on Mars. They could give false positives for life if they only look for metabolic products.

Not as much as you might think. We've found amino acids almost everywhere we look, including astroids [1]. It seems that the building blocks of life pretty naturally and readily form. Which is a pretty strong indicator that life is likely fairly common outside earth. [1] https://www.nasa.gov/news-release/nasas-asteroid-bennu-sampl...

Tangentially related, this is a bit trying to sell upcoming book, but the discussion of origins of life was interesting to me. https://www.newscientist.com/article/2526959-how-a-radical-n... YMMV but It’s free via my local library and Libby if you are stopped by the subscription nag.

Re: What appear to be biochemical processes may be a natural feature of geology

#14
post #7
post #6

This is huge news if true for evaluating soil experiments on Mars. They could give false positives for life if they only look for metabolic products.

Not as much as you might think. We've found amino acids almost everywhere we look, including astroids [1]. It seems that the building blocks of life pretty naturally and readily form. Which is a pretty strong indicator that life is likely fairly common outside earth. [1] https://www.nasa.gov/news-release/nasas-asteroid-bennu-sampl...

The amino acids that can be found everywhere include ten of the simpler amino-acids that are used in proteins (glycine, the 2 acids, the 3 branched, alanine, proline and the 2 alcohols).

The other 11 amino-acids from proteins have never been found where life does not exist. They are more complex and they seem to have been developed by living beings long after the appearance of life and the appearance of the genetic code (they seem to have substituted later the simpler amino-acids in certain locations of the map of the original genetic code, which encoded fewer amino-acids).

Moreover, while the simple amino-acids, including the ten that are used in proteins, can be found pretty much everywhere, wherever they were not produced by living beings they have been found in racemic mixtures, i.e. in equal amounts of left-handed and right-handed isomers, while in proteins only the left-handed isomers are used, so the living beings normally produce almost only left-handed isomers. Very small quantities of right-handed isomers are produced by some living beings, for other purposes than making proteins.

So it is relatively easy to distinguish amino-acids that have been produced by living beings from amino-acids that have been produced in abiotic conditions (i.e. the amino-acids produced in abiotic conditions are recognized by the absence of complex amino-acids and by the presence of great quantities of right-handed isomers).

Re: What appear to be biochemical processes may be a natural feature of geology

#15

Reminds me of the Gamma Forest at Brookhaven National Labs. From 1961 thru 1978 they irradiated a section of the pine barrens forest with a cesium-137 source just to see what would happen. It sterilized the soil and hardly anything grows there, almost 50 years later. https://maps.app.goo.gl/pJYr6qiZnMdVwLJS6 https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/brookhaven-gamma-forest https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsuiLxcDuHY&t=925s

That's a bit odd - why wouldn't wind blown non-sterile organic matter from the surrounding forest re-colonize the area?

If there's enough radioactive material and it is mobile enough (due to ground water or wind driven mixing) to stay near the surface it could sterilize any organic material that comes in faster than it can accumulate.

Re: What appear to be biochemical processes may be a natural feature of geology

#16
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a bit odd - why wouldn't wind blown non-sterile organic matter from the surrounding forest re-colonize the area?

If there's enough radioactive material and it is mobile enough (due to ground water or wind driven mixing) to stay near the surface it could sterilize any organic material that comes in faster than it can accumulate.

They said specifically that it were a cesium-137 source. I think the commentator is fair in pointing out that this finding is ultimately quite odd.

Re: What appear to be biochemical processes may be a natural feature of geology

#17
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a bit odd - why wouldn't wind blown non-sterile organic matter from the surrounding forest re-colonize the area?

If there's enough radioactive material and it is mobile enough (due to ground water or wind driven mixing) to stay near the surface it could sterilize any organic material that comes in faster than it can accumulate.

"An area of oak-pine wood was selected East of Upton, and a tower was constructed that could raise and lower a canister from underground that contained radioactive source material, allowing for controlled dosage levels that emanated in a radius from the tower. The canister contained Cesium-137, which would emit ionizing gamma radiation without making the surrounding area radioactive itself."

Re: What appear to be biochemical processes may be a natural feature of geology

#18

Reminds me of the Gamma Forest at Brookhaven National Labs. From 1961 thru 1978 they irradiated a section of the pine barrens forest with a cesium-137 source just to see what would happen. It sterilized the soil and hardly anything grows there, almost 50 years later. https://maps.app.goo.gl/pJYr6qiZnMdVwLJS6 https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/brookhaven-gamma-forest https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsuiLxcDuHY&t=925s

That's a bit odd - why wouldn't wind blown non-sterile organic matter from the surrounding forest re-colonize the area?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mycorrhiza

Re: What appear to be biochemical processes may be a natural feature of geology

#19
post #2

It feels next would be trying isolate the component that make CO2. Try to use smaller sample. Put them under microscope, etc.

Maybe it's the very molecules that the live cells were using, just doing their thing without the cells. Cells concentrate things by confining them in a small volume, but otoh, if you have damp particles, the thin water layer on the particles would be a kind of confining space, with the added advantage of surface area to exchange gases with.

Re: What appear to be biochemical processes may be a natural feature of geology

#20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm guessing the distinct lack of Google Streetview on that circular bit of road nearby and the tracks implies a certain amount of resistance to access if you get off that dual carriageway to the west?

That "circular bit of road" is the Relativistic Heavy Ion Collider, the second highest-powered particle accelerator on the planet. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relativistic_Heavy_Ion_Collide...

Awesome! I had a good nose about the LHC when I was there a few years ago. I'm guessing that site isn't quite so enthusiastic about visitors?

The dump load for one of my wind turbines is a pair of 22Ω resistors recovered from one of CERN's "free for all" scrap piles :-)

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