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United Airlines 767 returns to Newark after Bluetooth name sparks alert

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Re: United Airlines 767 returns to Newark after Bluetooth name sparks alert

#891

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is trying to sanewash totally insane levels of risk aversion. To add more credence to your point, let's not forget this beautiful line in TFA | During this incident, a Wi-Fi hotspot named "Free Palestine, F Zionists" prompted the pilot to issue a warning to the cabin, telling the passenger responsible that they had "30 seconds" to remove the name or the FBI would meet the aircraft. This is clearly not a threat…

> Being on the plane doesn't remove your right to free speech The First Amendment only prevents the government from penalizing your speech. It doesn't stop a private company (airline) kicking you off an airplane for something you said or did. The PIC (Pilot In Command, aka Captain) is the final authority for the safe operation of the flight (14 CFR Part 91.3). If the Captain determines that a threat exists, they are…

I acknowledge that the airline captain has some responsibility for our security. But part of this responsibility is being a steward for our overall well-being. And in this case, the "security" aspect is so vastly overwhelmed by the damage it did to passengers in other ways, that it was obviously a bad call on the captain's part.

It really does break both ways. Over-reacting to perceived threats has a cost too.

Warning - semi-political (but hopefully non-partisan) political content ahead: This is the same thing the FDA does with drug approvals. They are overwhelmingly biased toward preventing bad drugs that they prevent access to a lot of things that could help. Studies show that the FDA's difference between up-side and down-side risk costs a lot of lives on net. For example, the FDA delayed the approval of beta-blockers (used to prevent second heart attacks) for several years after they were widely available and saving lives in Europe. Analysts estimate that this delay alone cost tens of thousands of American lives.

Sometimes, accepting a risk provides the greatest net benefit.

Re: United Airlines 767 returns to Newark after Bluetooth name sparks alert

#892
post #178

I once consulted on some aviation-related software (not the safety work prominent on my resume), and a company announcement came through, that you must never use a few specific words commonly heard in software development. The two no-no words I recall were "crash" and "bomb". Don't write them in code or documents, don't say them on the phone or videoconf, etc. Those terms have senses that people in aviation take extr…

This is trying to sanewash totally insane levels of risk aversion. Do you think terrorists are really going to name their Bluetooth speaker "bomb"? Do you think this behaviour has any meaningful true positives? This is the kind of brainworms thinking that has people throwing our their 150ml liquids out at TSA and taking their shoes off.

The comment reminded me of the time that we (developers) were told to avoid the use of the word "abort" in any text displayed to the user in a medical device. e.g., an error message that may have included the words "Operation aborted" would now be "Operation terminated."

Some industries just have trigger words to avoid.

To your point about a terrorist not naming the phone "bomb," I can foresee exactly that happening. Someone building a remotely triggered explosive device has a considerable incentive to not blow themselves up. Part of the safety behavior in that scenario could indeed include clearly naming the device "BOMB" or similar and then forgetting to rename it before sending it out the door.

Re: United Airlines 767 returns to Newark after Bluetooth name sparks alert

#893

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Being on the plane doesn't remove your right to free speech The First Amendment only prevents the government from penalizing your speech. It doesn't stop a private company (airline) kicking you off an airplane for something you said or did. The PIC (Pilot In Command, aka Captain) is the final authority for the safe operation of the flight (14 CFR Part 91.3). If the Captain determines that a threat exists, they are…

> It doesn't stop a private company Read the story a bit more. There's the FBI and TSA being involved * which are government agencies* . There is a big difference between "getting kicked off the plane" and "getting kicked off the plane and getting arrested". > they are empowered to do pretty much anything reasonable to deal with the threat Someone naming their phone "Free Palestine, F Israel" is not a threat . Full s…

> Someone naming their phone "Free Palestine, F Israel" is not a threat. Full stop.

The bluetooth device's name was BOMB. We're trained to treat even vague threats seriously.

The captain in this case is in a terrible situation. Do nothing, get pilloried for not taking action. Turn around, get pilloried for that.

I hope I'm never in this position because there are really no good options. All of you making comments have not been in this position, and were not there at the time with the information the captain had access to, and so are not in a position to judge the decision.

Re: United Airlines 767 returns to Newark after Bluetooth name sparks alert

#894

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. Many people are unaware of just how much authority a captain has; Failing to follow their instructions is (basically) a felony. It's best to just not mess around on an aircraft.

Am a pilot, this is totally wrong. PIC authority is strictly limited to in-scope items, this very obviously wasn’t in scope unless it was e.g. causing other passengers to behave in an unruly manner.

The Pilot in Command (PIC) holds absolute, ultimate responsibility and final authority for the operation and safety of the aircraft.

Also, in another reply you state, "aircrew has actual legal authority which stems from the fact that they’re aircrew."

Do your pilot credentials include an ATP cert?

Re: United Airlines 767 returns to Newark after Bluetooth name sparks alert

#895
post #500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What if it had been named "Teddy Ruxpin is my friend", but the pilot doesn't know whether that's a secret code for "I'm going to release aerosol sarin nerve gas on the plane"? I'm unable to find any connection between Teddy Ruxpin and sarin gas online, so I don't see why a pilot would make such a connection. Am I missing something? > If you can't know whether something is a threat or not, the only reasonable respon…

>I'm unable to find any connection between Teddy Ruxpin and sarin gas online, so I don't see why a pilot would make such a connection. And I'm unable to see the connection that you're imagining in the original post. What is it? Can you explain it to me? Is the threat here in the room with us now?

> I'm unable to see the connection that you're imagining in the original post.

The word "bomb" has a particular significance in the context of an airplane full of people who can't escape.

If you don't think it should, start your own airline and advertise that you have no problem at all with people using the word "bomb" freely aboard your planes, and see how many customers you get.

Re: United Airlines 767 returns to Newark after Bluetooth name sparks alert

#896
post #889

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Being on the plane doesn't remove your right to free speech The First Amendment only prevents the government from penalizing your speech. It doesn't stop a private company (airline) kicking you off an airplane for something you said or did. The PIC (Pilot In Command, aka Captain) is the final authority for the safe operation of the flight (14 CFR Part 91.3). If the Captain determines that a threat exists, they are…

If an airline pilot is so bereft of fortitude that they perceive a political wifi network name as a threat, they should be disallowed command of the aircraft. They need therapy. Mental weakness like this should not be tolerated in those responsible for the safe operation of human lives.

I dunno which article you were reading, but the linked article says it was a bluetooth device named BOMB.

Our training is to treat even vague threats seriously.

Re: United Airlines 767 returns to Newark after Bluetooth name sparks alert

#897

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Being on the plane doesn't remove your right to free speech The First Amendment only prevents the government from penalizing your speech. It doesn't stop a private company (airline) kicking you off an airplane for something you said or did. The PIC (Pilot In Command, aka Captain) is the final authority for the safe operation of the flight (14 CFR Part 91.3). If the Captain determines that a threat exists, they are…

> It doesn't stop a private company Read the story a bit more. There's the FBI and TSA being involved * which are government agencies* . There is a big difference between "getting kicked off the plane" and "getting kicked off the plane and getting arrested". > they are empowered to do pretty much anything reasonable to deal with the threat Someone naming their phone "Free Palestine, F Israel" is not a threat . Full s…

"Free Palestine, F Israel" being treated as a threat is consistent with how all other Palestine/Israel speech is treated. E.g. in the UK if you said that in public you'd be considered a terrorist sympathiser (which is criminal). If you said it in Germany you'd be considered a Nazi (which is criminal). If you said it in the USA, they couldn't directly criminalise you based on speech but they'd find something else, like public nuisance or being a terrorist. So I'm not really surprised by this at all.

Re: United Airlines 767 returns to Newark after Bluetooth name sparks alert

#898

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to work with a small Aviation-related software company. There it was really not like this, the boss made jokes about it. On the other hand engineering-wise things were done really differently: no branches, fail fast, only e2e tests etc. Probably the rift between small companies and corporate culture also applies here.

The French ministry of foreign affairs (state department) have been giving advice to traveller for decades There was a time when their advice for travels to the US of A was to not tell TSA or law enforcement that you had a bomb in your bag, as it wasn't funny anymore and they would not take it as a joke

Being from Europe as well I've also been hearing similar advice plenty of times. With time I heard stories about people from all walks of lives having been help up by TSA, from people on business travel to kids of US senators...

Re: United Airlines 767 returns to Newark after Bluetooth name sparks alert

#900
post #817

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a design flaw in AirDrop, not an "incident"

When China mentioned this to Apple, Apple agreed, and “Everyone” is not the default and also not available for more than 10 minutes now.

To be fair, everyone in China agrees with the government about everything. It's not really optional.
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