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Roughly a quarter of American professionals hit a wall in their careers

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Re: Roughly a quarter of American professionals hit a wall in their careers

#111

Post by compiler-guy »

tavavex wrote: post #108
AlexB138 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most companies use the term "discretionary PTO". That means that there is no set limit on PTO. The positive take on it is that this means employees can take time off within reason so long as they're getting their work done. The negative take is that it means you have no guaranteed days you can take, and cultural or managerial pressure will prevent you from taking even a normal amount of vacation. It also means that e…

Does this unlimited PTO still have to adhere to any legally required minimum PTO limits? If not, what prevents them from just not giving their employees any time off ever and bypassing the peer pressure part entirely?

It does not. Nothing.

Re: Roughly a quarter of American professionals hit a wall in their careers

#112

Post by stringfood »

qsxfthnkp2322 wrote: post #68
stringfood wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this could be because the business have all the power in the relationship, especially in bad job markets like today. When they hold all the cards they can make us dance for them and they never dance for us

These companies are making more money than they ever have. I’m tired of all the excuses for shit leadership. They all can go to h** when they die.

I think it goes black after you take your last breath

Re: Roughly a quarter of American professionals hit a wall in their careers

#113

Post by rectang »

compiler-guy wrote: post #105
tavavex wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand. What is 'unlimited' PTO? And if it's so unlimited, why can't you use any of it? I've only had jobs with very specifically defined PTO that had no ambiguity in whether I could ever use it.

"Unlimited PTO" is a fiction created by accountants that sounds good on paper. When you need or want time off, you work it out with your manager. No debate about how many days you have left this year, or how many you have accumulated. It's undefined and technically you are supposed to work together and away you go. Accountants like it because guaranteed time-off is a liability that appears on the company's books as a…

From the perspective that a company is an amoral profit-seeking automaton, it's not a "terrible system", it's a successful initiative to reduce compensation.

Re: Roughly a quarter of American professionals hit a wall in their careers

#114

Post by jandrewrogers »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #73
jandrewrogers wrote: post #64

Stalling out on promotion has always happened. It can be explained almost entirely by two factors: As you become more senior, the success metrics for your role change significantly. Mentoring only goes so far because there is a large element of self-awareness and a willingness to change. Some people never recognize this and many never successfully adapt to what seniority entails. It is the career equivalent of trying…

Another aspect of being promoted: many of us see what the next level has to do/is doing and isn’t interested in doing that. I’ve seen people get promoted and then immediately implode because N+1 started involving lots of politics that they couldn’t or didn’t want to handle. Even senior IC roles get more and more exposed to non-technical and organizational issues.

This is very true. I think it takes a while in your career to recognize what your ideal terminal role is because you have to get close enough to some roles to realize that you never want to do them. Nonetheless, some people have a strong drive toward the status of promotion that seems to take priority over liking the job.

Finding a level that suits you and being satisfied with it is an important life hack.

Re: Roughly a quarter of American professionals hit a wall in their careers

#116

Post by naravara »

everdrive wrote: post #13

Interestingly, I've heard that job hopping no longer pays better than staying in place. I can't say if this is true (and no matter what's true, I'm sure that people have anecdotal exceptions!) but it would be quite discouraging if so.

Anecdotally it seems like anywhere I’d hop to pays about the same unless I can get to the next tier up. If you want to move up a level they expect you to have at least 3-5 years already being at that level so the only way forward is to get promoted and THEN hop.

Re: Roughly a quarter of American professionals hit a wall in their careers

#117

Post by AlexB138 »

compiler-guy wrote: post #110
AlexB138 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most companies use the term "discretionary PTO". That means that there is no set limit on PTO. The positive take on it is that this means employees can take time off within reason so long as they're getting their work done. The negative take is that it means you have no guaranteed days you can take, and cultural or managerial pressure will prevent you from taking even a normal amount of vacation. It also means that e…

The shift from the tem "Unlimited PTO" to "Discretionary PTO" has happened because early proponents realized it wasn't really unlimited, and they didn't want workers to think that way. But the "unlimited" term is still used to sell it, and still often appears in informal recruiting conversations. It's just so slimy.

Yeah, the current reality of it isn't great at a lot of companies. I've been places where it was done well though. For instance, having a mandatory minimum number of days of vacation helps combat pressure to not take time off, and leaders who openly encourage people to take their time helps combat a culture of not taking time.

It started as a positive thing, intending to trust the employees and give flexibility. Unfortunately, like a lot of things, sleazy leaders turn flexibility into manipulation.

Re: Roughly a quarter of American professionals hit a wall in their careers

#118

Post by arbitrary_name »

qsxfthnkp2322 wrote: post #68
stringfood wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this could be because the business have all the power in the relationship, especially in bad job markets like today. When they hold all the cards they can make us dance for them and they never dance for us

These companies are making more money than they ever have. I’m tired of all the excuses for shit leadership. They all can go to h** when they die.

you mispelled 'every circle of hell'.

out of curiosity, why would you censor that word?

Re: Roughly a quarter of American professionals hit a wall in their careers

#119

Post by Aurornis »

codegeek wrote: post #76
arsan87 wrote: post #42

At my workplace we were hyped up for a special announcement during a company meeting. this is after, literally, years of layoffs, offshoring, cut after cut to benefits, and restructurings. Morale is incredibly low. The big announcement is they are giving everyone one extra day off around a national holiday as a reward. We already have "unlimited" PTO but of course can't really use it. So their reward is letting us us…

Because of these shitty corporate companies that don't give a shit about their employees, the well is now poisoned for companies that do care especially smaller ones. Employees don't want to give their best anymore because they are burnt elsewhere and they become unemployable at smaller companies. It is a sad state of affairs.

I've worked at the full spectrum from great to terrible (and eventually one that went legally fraudulent) companies.

You're right that there can be a problem at small companies when you hire someone out of a toxic company. Some people love the fresh start and are so happy to finally be in a healthy environment that they thrive.

Some people are so broken from toxic previous employers that they can't adapt. We hired a lot of people out of a competitive Big Tech office and it was probably a 50/50 flip of the coin if they were going to be great to work with or toxic political monsters. I had to have so many difficult conversations with people who could only see their coworkers and other teams as competitors who had to be defeated that I nearly had a prepared speech on the topic. The politics and attempted backstabbing was insane. It was also weird that they thought it was going to work at a small company where we knew the people they were trying to backstab for years.

Re: Roughly a quarter of American professionals hit a wall in their careers

#120

Post by yladiz »

compiler-guy wrote: post #111
tavavex wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does this unlimited PTO still have to adhere to any legally required minimum PTO limits? If not, what prevents them from just not giving their employees any time off ever and bypassing the peer pressure part entirely?

It does not. Nothing.

Maybe in the US, but in countries with minimum holiday time you get the minimum in your contract (or a bit more) and the employee handbook says you have unlimited. Companies can’t shirk their responsibility here legally by saying they give unlimited vacation.
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