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Two Ways to Draw Infinite Jest's Sierpinski Gasket

chiply.dev

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Re: Two Ways to Draw Infinite Jest's Sierpinski Gasket

#41

Post by jerkstate »

ErroneousBosh wrote: post #13
chiply wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, maybe I made my claim unclear. So my claim is that the 3 vertices are the institutions (ETA, Ennet House, the Wheelchair Assassins), not plots. I agree that IJ is kind of plotless, and that to me is what the voids in the Sierpinski Gasket could represent, but this article was more about the two-ways-to-construct-the-triangle thing. But I like your vertices (family, education, and society). You're making me think…

I've tried three times to read it and got a few pages in before giving up on it. Would it make more sense to just dive into the middle and see what converges out then? What put me off it is it just kind of reads like a rambling stoner conversation.

Try the audiobook, although I’m sure purists would consider it cheating. You can zone out and it keeps going and something will pull your attention and you can rewind to get the context.

Re: Two Ways to Draw Infinite Jest's Sierpinski Gasket

#43

Post by chiply »

janvdberg wrote: post #42

Awesome to find DFW content on HN! Love this piece! I will surely blog about it on davidfosterwallace.nl in the coming weeks (it'll be in Dutch though).

Oh thanks! That'll be great to see :). Edit: feel free to drop a link here or send to me when it's ready, I'd love to read it! My contact info is in my blog!

Re: Two Ways to Draw Infinite Jest's Sierpinski Gasket

#44

Post by chiply »

iammjm wrote: post #30

> Three primary settings, three institutions, and three cults of surrender: discipline (ETA), substance (Ennet), ideology (AFR). I don't think substance is right: I think it's about freedom from it, or maybe a "higher power" of some sorts, mysticism maybe. I think it makes more sense, also in the context of what Wallace said elsewhere ("This Is Water"): "Because here's something else that's weird but true: in the day…

Ah this is a good catch! I think "higher power" would fit way better given how I framed this sentence. Ennet's members aren't surrendering to substance (they've already done that). Like you said, once in the halfway house, they're surrendering to the "higher power". AA groups, as the book covers, are conspicuously religious, and I know a lot of the AA passages were informed by DFW's research at AA meetings and his own experience in recovery. I'm going to change this line.

Re: Two Ways to Draw Infinite Jest's Sierpinski Gasket

#45

Post by iammjm »

chiply wrote: post #44
iammjm wrote: post #30

> Three primary settings, three institutions, and three cults of surrender: discipline (ETA), substance (Ennet), ideology (AFR). I don't think substance is right: I think it's about freedom from it, or maybe a "higher power" of some sorts, mysticism maybe. I think it makes more sense, also in the context of what Wallace said elsewhere ("This Is Water"): "Because here's something else that's weird but true: in the day…

Ah this is a good catch! I think "higher power" would fit way better given how I framed this sentence. Ennet's members aren't surrendering to substance (they've already done that). Like you said, once in the halfway house, they're surrendering to the "higher power". AA groups, as the book covers, are conspicuously religious, and I know a lot of the AA passages were informed by DFW's research at AA meetings and his ow…

By the way, I really liked your article! I love Infinite Jest and I also have a thing for Sierpinski Triangles; first time I heard about them was from Robert Anton Wilson. Last year I even linoprinted christmas cards with simple christmas trees made from sierpinski triangles for my family and friends!

Also: do you know https://samizdat.co/digest/? Looks like an interesting project which ties nicely into your idea

Re: Two Ways to Draw Infinite Jest's Sierpinski Gasket

#46

Post by chiply »

iammjm wrote: post #45
chiply wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah this is a good catch! I think "higher power" would fit way better given how I framed this sentence. Ennet's members aren't surrendering to substance (they've already done that). Like you said, once in the halfway house, they're surrendering to the "higher power". AA groups, as the book covers, are conspicuously religious, and I know a lot of the AA passages were informed by DFW's research at AA meetings and his ow…

By the way, I really liked your article! I love Infinite Jest and I also have a thing for Sierpinski Triangles; first time I heard about them was from Robert Anton Wilson. Last year I even linoprinted christmas cards with simple christmas trees made from sierpinski triangles for my family and friends! Also: do you know https://samizdat.co/digest/ ? Looks like an interesting project which ties nicely into your idea

Sierpinski Christmas cards is next level! Whoa, that site is beautiful! Thank you for sharing that, I'm going to be having a lot of fun with this today!

Re: Two Ways to Draw Infinite Jest's Sierpinski Gasket

#47

Post by nephihaha »

chiply wrote: post #29
nephihaha wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main prophetic thing in there is the notion of people watching media until they die. I've been dealing with a sixty something recently who has managed to become dehydrated and malnourished from watching too much YouTube recently. He has back trouble from inactivity and his back has made him yet more inactive. All he does is watch ragebait on YouTube now.

This is such an interesting story, and very much in line with DFW's writing in IJ. I think this reality is something many folks are still in denial about. Like, how many times do you see an add depicting some translucent person's distorted cervical spine, referencing 'devices' in all their various forms as the cause. The entertainment / devices we use every day are literally causing morphological changes in our bodie…

I see people hunched over the phone all day. I use mine too often but I take time out as well. They aren't even enjoying what they are experiencing judging by the constant swiping etc.

Then there is the narcissism. I witnessed a beautiful sunset from the bus over green fields last week and I presumed a woman was filming it... Then I realised she was photographing herself. Oh dear.

Re: Two Ways to Draw Infinite Jest's Sierpinski Gasket

#48

Post by nephihaha »

jerkstate wrote: post #41
ErroneousBosh wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've tried three times to read it and got a few pages in before giving up on it. Would it make more sense to just dive into the middle and see what converges out then? What put me off it is it just kind of reads like a rambling stoner conversation.

Try the audiobook, although I’m sure purists would consider it cheating. You can zone out and it keeps going and something will pull your attention and you can rewind to get the context.

There are so many footnotes and back notes that the audiobook does it a disservice. However, I have used both to try and get through it.

Re: Two Ways to Draw Infinite Jest's Sierpinski Gasket

#49

Post by nephihaha »

chiply wrote: post #28
achenet wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Solidly prophetic? Er, it kind of predicts the internet, but everything else? Quebec separatism? Corporate sponsored calendar? All of North America under the same flag? Dumping toxic waste in/on Québec instead of Africa ? none of things actually happened

I'm not sure I agree. A more solid prophecy would be InterLace and the teleputer (analogous to streaming and smartphones, respectively). I do think the Entertainment is a solid prophecy of doom scroll / infinite scroll, which is now showing up in basically every application. The videophony chapter is also especially prophetic when you consider the prevalence of things like filters. I actually noticed the other day on…

The world wide web only started gaining serious traction in the mid 1990s, and I would say '97 was when it began to become part of normie culture as opposed to nerds. Even by the 2000s, there were many people who had never been on it.

Yes, he was definitely prophetic about filters. I remember that bit.

(On an unrelated note, I saw a thread elsewhere about whether Kurt Cobain was a frequent internet user. He could have been since he lived long enough, but he never left much trace if he was.)

Re: Two Ways to Draw Infinite Jest's Sierpinski Gasket

#50

Post by vessenes »

chiply wrote: post #5
ofalkaed wrote: post #3

Using the three plots of Infinite Jest as the vertices doesn't really work, there is nothing fractal like about the plot itself and plot is not the structure. How I see it is that the vertices would be family, education, and society, which are all deeply interrelated. For the majority of the characters we learn their relation to these three things, in Hal and Gately we get a very well developed view of it, not so muc…

Ah, maybe I made my claim unclear. So my claim is that the 3 vertices are the institutions (ETA, Ennet House, the Wheelchair Assassins), not plots. I agree that IJ is kind of plotless, and that to me is what the voids in the Sierpinski Gasket could represent, but this article was more about the two-ways-to-construct-the-triangle thing. But I like your vertices (family, education, and society). You're making me think…

I read IJ in a two (three?) day binge shortly after it was published and never returned. Although I will say I really liked it. Since you're an experienced reader, I'll ask a question bugging me since the 1990s -- my intuition post-read was that you would get a totally different plot line out of the novel if you skipped the endnotes. Holding the novel in one's head is a lot to ask, especially of someone who just read straight through very quickly, so I'm curious what the current literary establishment thinks about the end notes, and how the main text interacts with them from a more formal or structural standpoint.

Any thoughts appreciated!

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