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Cessation of public development of Kefir C compiler

kefir.protopopov.lv

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Re: Cessation of public development of Kefir C compiler

#51

Post by xigoi »

Gormo wrote: post #45
xigoi wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> FOSS has always been about just writing code and putting it out into the world where others can do as they please with it. Not true. Most FOSS licenses require attribution and many require derivatives to be released under the same license.

Sure, but I guess I'm not seeing the relevance here. Are we seeing some greater-than-normal wave of people redistributing FOSS code without attribution, or creating derivative works without adhering to the license terms? LLM training doesn't seem to be either of these things.

We are seeing megacorporations (SlopenAI, Antslopic, Microslop, etc.) distributing derivatives of open-source code (their LLMs) without attribution.

Re: Cessation of public development of Kefir C compiler

#52

Post by hilariously »

Gormo wrote: post #43
account42 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is essentially the digital world transforming from a high trust society into a low trust one. Sad to see.

To whom would you attribute the greater part of that reduction in trust: the people using FOSS to train LLMs, or the people trying to block them?

Its definitely the ones DDOSing websites while giving no attribution in any way to the original creators.

Re: Cessation of public development of Kefir C compiler

#54

Post by tocariimaa »

RetroTechie wrote: post #27

So how big is the community around this project? If a one-person show, closing it up would effectively kill it? Or (re?)turn it into a hobby project developed at snail pace. If some community exists: fork coming up?

One person show. Effectively, it is dead since now it became the proprietary toy of its author. The author is entitled to do what he wants with his own creation, however.

Re: Cessation of public development of Kefir C compiler

#55

Post by dlev_pika »

Xirdus wrote: post #49
Gormo wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To whom would you attribute the greater part of that reduction in trust: the people using FOSS to train LLMs, or the people trying to block them?

People who break the social contract are the ones responsible for breaking the social contract, not the ones who take steps in response to social contract being broken.

“No, no, what was she wearing?”

Re: Cessation of public development of Kefir C compiler

#56

Post by Gormo »

xigoi wrote: post #51
Gormo wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but I guess I'm not seeing the relevance here. Are we seeing some greater-than-normal wave of people redistributing FOSS code without attribution, or creating derivative works without adhering to the license terms? LLM training doesn't seem to be either of these things.

We are seeing megacorporations (SlopenAI, Antslopic, Microslop, etc.) distributing derivatives of open-source code (their LLMs) without attribution.

Can you point to some specific examples of products shipped by the companies I assume you're referring to here that are in fact unattributed derivative works of GPL-licensed software?

Or are you saying that you think anything generated by an LLM qualifies as a derivative work of anything included in its training data?

Re: Cessation of public development of Kefir C compiler

#57

Post by Gormo »

Xirdus wrote: post #49
Gormo wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To whom would you attribute the greater part of that reduction in trust: the people using FOSS to train LLMs, or the people trying to block them?

People who break the social contract are the ones responsible for breaking the social contract, not the ones who take steps in response to social contract being broken.

So the questions here are (a) is any generally accepted social contract actually being broken, and (b) if so, who are the ones who are breaking it?

Re: Cessation of public development of Kefir C compiler

#58

Post by [deleted] »

Gormo wrote: post #57
Xirdus wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who break the social contract are the ones responsible for breaking the social contract, not the ones who take steps in response to social contract being broken.

So the questions here are (a) is any generally accepted social contract actually being broken, and (b) if so, who are the ones who are breaking it?

[deleted]

Re: Cessation of public development of Kefir C compiler

#59

Post by Gormo »

hilariously wrote: post #52
Gormo wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To whom would you attribute the greater part of that reduction in trust: the people using FOSS to train LLMs, or the people trying to block them?

Its definitely the ones DDOSing websites while giving no attribution in any way to the original creators.

DDOSing websites seems to be an unrelated problem, and one that has traditionally been solved through response throttling and IP blocking.

Attribution is often required even on MIT or BSD licenses where code is being redistributed, either in original or modified versions, but that would relate to this discussion only to the extent that one regards using LLMs whose training data included a certain bit of code as itself constituting redistribution of that specific code -- but that in turn is a very debatable premise which really ought to be argued for, and not merely argued upon as though it is already generally recognized as true.

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