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Roughly a quarter of American professionals hit a wall in their careers

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Re: Roughly a quarter of American professionals hit a wall in their careers

#21

Post by darth_avocado »

Frieren wrote: post #14

Big tech owns a big chunk of the job market. So, the job market is not a market but a centralized system were big-tech has all the power to shape it. Unionizing is just part of the fighting back. Only splitting the big monopolies can bring back competition and healthy salaries and promotions. Monopolies are bad for consumers, but they are also bad for employees when that monopolies control most of the jobs of the ind…

> Big tech owns a big chunk of the job market

Big tech employs less than 1% of the people in the country.

Re: Roughly a quarter of American professionals hit a wall in their careers

#22

Post by bluGill »

Lord_Zero wrote: post #15
bluGill wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every few years companies give a large raise to everyone when they notice they can't hire people and the ones they have are leaving. So if you don't manage to find a new job it isn't hopeless, so long as enough people are leaving. Of course if you don't leave they may lay you off at any time. However assuming that doesn't happen they will eventually give you a large raise.

There is no guarantee that will happen. "Just hold out until they are desperate enough that they HAVE to give you a large raise!" is laughable. Every single day you don't quit and get paid what you are worth, is a day you are leaving money on the table. Imagine waiting years for that big raise when you could have left and made tens to hundreds of thousands more in that time.

I did not say don't look for a new job though. I said that if you can't find one. Sometimes you can't find a better job - better is more than just pay, there are other factors that may apply to you personally (ethics of the job, working hours, where they need you to work, how much travel...)

Holding out isn't ideal, but it might be the best for you.

Re: Roughly a quarter of American professionals hit a wall in their careers

#23

Post by smallmancontrov »

deburo wrote: post #11
figmert wrote: post #3

There's no reward for loyalty any more, and it's caused everyone to job hop (at least while that was possible), including me. At the time, employees complained about it, and in the same breath refused to give out any promotions and/or reward employees. Or they'd reward them with some shitty voucher. The world has literally become the people vs corporations. There is no soul in working any more.

When was it different? I never saw that in big corporations, only SMBs when the founders were still at the helm.

There was famously an inflection point 40-50 years ago where wages decoupled from productivity to the downside. I'm sure it wasn't perfect before then, but things did change.

Re: Roughly a quarter of American professionals hit a wall in their careers

#24

Post by mystraline »

figmert wrote: post #3

There's no reward for loyalty any more, and it's caused everyone to job hop (at least while that was possible), including me. At the time, employees complained about it, and in the same breath refused to give out any promotions and/or reward employees. Or they'd reward them with some shitty voucher. The world has literally become the people vs corporations. There is no soul in working any more.

[dead]

Re: Roughly a quarter of American professionals hit a wall in their careers

#25

Post by bluGill »

sjhatfield wrote: post #19
neversupervised wrote: post #16

Years of experience don’t correlate to output in all careers. Surgeons and engineers get better over time. This might not be true for all jobs. Meanwhile, management is naturally capped because every manager necessarily needs people to manage under them, so there’ll be 1/N^y managers at the yth level of the org. Unless loyalty ought to be reward for its own sake, it’s not clear why 100% of workers should get promoted…

It's not that promotions should be given out indefinitely but I think a pay raise in line with inflation should be the minimum, unless you are under performing. It's funny when a company excitedly shares a pay raise with you are it's below inflation...

I always look at inflation when I get a raise. Or if they are skipping raises because of the economy - I compare to inflation. I accept that as a staff level engineer I've reached about the top of what I can make - but I still expect my income to match inflation, and I have left when it doesn't.

Re: Roughly a quarter of American professionals hit a wall in their careers

#26

Post by trgn »

everdrive wrote: post #13

Interestingly, I've heard that job hopping no longer pays better than staying in place. I can't say if this is true (and no matter what's true, I'm sure that people have anecdotal exceptions!) but it would be quite discouraging if so.

Anecdotally it's true imho. accrual of benefits, sbc and wage-indexing, ... job hopping puts you at the ground floor of each, and salary jumps have narrowed.

Re: Roughly a quarter of American professionals hit a wall in their careers

#27

Post by darth_avocado »

deburo wrote: post #11
figmert wrote: post #3

There's no reward for loyalty any more, and it's caused everyone to job hop (at least while that was possible), including me. At the time, employees complained about it, and in the same breath refused to give out any promotions and/or reward employees. Or they'd reward them with some shitty voucher. The world has literally become the people vs corporations. There is no soul in working any more.

When was it different? I never saw that in big corporations, only SMBs when the founders were still at the helm.

20-30 years ago in private sector. Still is in government.

Re: Roughly a quarter of American professionals hit a wall in their careers

#28

Post by Rp8yXmdmr »

deburo wrote: post #11
figmert wrote: post #3

There's no reward for loyalty any more, and it's caused everyone to job hop (at least while that was possible), including me. At the time, employees complained about it, and in the same breath refused to give out any promotions and/or reward employees. Or they'd reward them with some shitty voucher. The world has literally become the people vs corporations. There is no soul in working any more.

When was it different? I never saw that in big corporations, only SMBs when the founders were still at the helm.

The thing that changed was perception. People no longer believe loyalty to employer is worthwhile, just as they no longer believe hard work is what gets people rich.

Re: Roughly a quarter of American professionals hit a wall in their careers

#29

Post by bluefirebrand »

darth_avocado wrote: post #17

> No Raise, No Promotion They forgot the “More work, Constant threat of Unemployment” part

Exactly.

The reason there are no raises and no promotions is because of this "just be thankful you have a job and income at all" mentality that exists in the current environment

Re: Roughly a quarter of American professionals hit a wall in their careers

#30

Post by bluGill »

everdrive wrote: post #13

Interestingly, I've heard that job hopping no longer pays better than staying in place. I can't say if this is true (and no matter what's true, I'm sure that people have anecdotal exceptions!) but it would be quite discouraging if so.

There are too many "it depends" to make any statement. The economy isn't running hot now, and that means those who are forced to job hop (laid off) provide enough potential hires that companies don't need to try to pay someone more to leave.

The real question is will this change? Will companies start valuing long term employees thus making it not worthwhile to leave? Only time will tell (I wouldn't bet on it though).

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