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A 10 year old Xeon is all you need

point.free

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Re: A 10 year old Xeon is all you need

#111
post #84

We’re not there yet, but the obvious endgame of the present bubble insanity is open models running on local hardware and devices are “good enough” for most use cases. That will completely implode what’s going on at the moment in tech.

Curious when NVIDIA monopoly will ends. China will sure release something that can runs on commodity hardware. I wish they will soon.

Re: A 10 year old Xeon is all you need

#112
post #89
post #84

We’re not there yet, but the obvious endgame of the present bubble insanity is open models running on local hardware and devices are “good enough” for most use cases. That will completely implode what’s going on at the moment in tech.

this is sorta like saying that being able to run your blog on your laptop will completely implode the cloud business

Running an LLM locally is theoretically viable. Running your blog on your laptop is never viable (unless you hook it up like a server). One just requires compute while the other a stable network.

Re: A 10 year old Xeon is all you need

#113
post #104
post #84

We’re not there yet, but the obvious endgame of the present bubble insanity is open models running on local hardware and devices are “good enough” for most use cases. That will completely implode what’s going on at the moment in tech.

This. OpenAI and Anthropic are ultimately compute infrastructure plays and not really AI. Everyone will have models, they'll have the ability to run them. This is why the GPU shortage is in their favor.

Do you think there will still be an incentive to release weights in that scenario? Everyone will have models only if there continue to be companies releasing weights.

Re: A 10 year old Xeon is all you need

#115
post #2

Hi HN. I wrote this post after getting frustrated by the lack of ways to run the new Gemma 4 Drafter models, and mainstream tools not prioritizing this, and hiding all the performance levers. I ended up getting a modern 26B MoE model (Gemma 4) running at reading speed on an old recycled server with a single Xeon E5-2620 v4 and 128GB of DDR3 RAM (and no GPU). It took a lot of work, but it actually worked out somehow.…

Something doesn't add up here. As someone who has only recently built a home-server from an E5-26xx v2 on DDR3 RAM (because I have a sh*tload of 32g DDR3 DIMMs), I can confidently say that the newer cores (E5-26xx v3 and v4) only run on DDR4 memory... So either you have a v2 instead of a v4 (and run on DDR3 memory), or you have a v4 but with DDR4 memory (not DDR3) Everything else doesn't work

It looks like Supermicro had some DDR3 Xeon v3/v4 boards, and the first thing that came to mind was a Shenzen workstation/gaming board using recycled parts... haven't searched on that but it's bound to exist.

Re: A 10 year old Xeon is all you need

#116
post #59
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

20 tokens per second for eval time is the killer here. It means you can't use this to process any meaningful amount of text. A GPU typically processes close to 1000 tokens/s during eval.

I'm pretty sure eval time is token generation time where it's actually outputting new tokens. If you're getting a thousand per second on that, I'd love to know on what.

From the prompt timings above, it seems like 'prompt eval time' is the equivalent to 'processing time for input tokens'.

Hyperscalers can perform this evaluation very quickly because evaluation can be significantly parallelized. The layer `i` output of token `j` only requires access to the layer `i-1` output of all previous tokens, so a parallel frontier develops. Token (0,0) [(token, layer)] is processed first, then tokens (0,1) and (1,0) can be processed in parallel, then (0,2), (1,1), and (2,0), and so on.

The maximum parallel width becomes equal to the number of layers in the model. Gemma 4 26B-A4B model discussed in this article evidently has 30 layers, giving a 30-fold speedup if the system were otherwise unconstrained (all layers can be run in parallel, and one full set of layer outputs is completed in the KV pass for each pass of the parallel sweep).

In the specific output above, however, the input prompt is only seven tokens long so there are probably considerable non-amortized spinup effects at play.

Re: A 10 year old Xeon is all you need

#117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find that hard to believe. The AI companies will want to control what's possible and find new things to do that "need" their services. Otherwise it would be like Intel and Microsoft had decided in the year 2000 that computers are "good enough" now and we would have explored what's possible with that hardware ever since.

> Otherwise it would be like Intel and Microsoft had decided in the year 2000 that computers are "good enough" now and we would have explored what's possible with that hardware ever since. I think you've misunderstood what good enough means in the context - which is a model capable of completing the tasks assigned to it without having the breadth of full generalization. Your analogy breaks down because of this - we d…

I think you've misunderstood the analogy. Just ignore it, analogies mostly break down anyways.

> a model capable of completing the tasks assigned to it

The thing is, the "task assigned to it" is changing with improved capabilities. If everyone around you in 2036 is using general AI to do amazing stuff, you will probably have little interest in vibe coding slop like it's 2026.

Re: A 10 year old Xeon is all you need

#118
post #84

We’re not there yet, but the obvious endgame of the present bubble insanity is open models running on local hardware and devices are “good enough” for most use cases. That will completely implode what’s going on at the moment in tech.

Not saying this isn't the case, but my Anthropic subscription costs me less than the electricity would to power such a home inference system.

Re: A 10 year old Xeon is all you need

#119
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. OpenAI and Anthropic are ultimately compute infrastructure plays and not really AI. Everyone will have models, they'll have the ability to run them. This is why the GPU shortage is in their favor.

Do you think there will still be an incentive to release weights in that scenario? Everyone will have models only if there continue to be companies releasing weights.

Companies won't but I suspect this is a role that something else open source-y will fill that niche. Maybe orgs like wikimedia or internet archive, maybe some hackers just making things, maybe nation states that want to disrupt other players. Also model training will get better and better both on the algo and the hardware side. You can easily see a world where you might be able to train a good enough model on a home lab in a few days.
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