Live data from Hacker News

What if remote working, not AI, is to blame for weak junior hiring?

ft.com

141–150 of 394 posts

Re: What if remote working, not AI, is to blame for weak junior hiring?

#141

What if Financial Times has a vested interest in the real estate industry, and therefore wants RTO mandates? Something something AI I mean.

Yeah "work from home" largely means "work from more affordable real estate". Very very few people do I know who work from home do it for digital nomad type reasons. Everyone else is due to not being able to afford anything near the office.

Re: What if remote working, not AI, is to blame for weak junior hiring?

#142
post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the moment is the significant part, how long do we expect this to last now that AI is capable of generating novel ideas like solutions to Erdos conjectures?

LLMs enable a new kind of text search. It looks like reasoning and intelligence, but it is not. For example, If you are not aware of Internet, you would consider a traditional internet search that comes up with a stackoverflow answer as a machine generating "novel ideas" and answers. It is a clever marketing trick (touting Erdos solutions) employeed by AI companies.

Whatever LLMs are or are not, they've completely changed what I do for work. 9 months ago I was coding, today I prompt. Every line of code I commit is generated by LLMs. If you want to call it text search, be my guest. Doesn't change what it's done for the industry.

Re: What if remote working, not AI, is to blame for weak junior hiring?

#143
The trouble with hiring juniors now is it's much more difficult to get them up to speed so they can be productive. Before covid, you'd sit next to them, get asked questions every so often, do some pair programming, and discuss ideas over lunch. You can, on paper, do the same exact things over Slack and Zoom. But there's much more friction. And a junior that's struggling is a lot less visible than it used to be. So what ends up happening is seniors become more heads down, getting things done, and juniors struggle to get time with more experienced coworkers.

Re: What if remote working, not AI, is to blame for weak junior hiring?

#144
post #114

I worked at a fully remote company that did the best job hiring juniors in my 20 year career. The talent and enthusiasm in that pool was great and really injected something into teams. What changed was ZIRP ending. The layoffs from that were real, and the managers who can't hire a ton angle for more senior people instead. The junior culture changed overnight.

I have said the same for a while. And I also think there is an increasing trend of clueless CEOs trying to replace expensive developers with AI token spend. We are still waiting on the long tail of consequences from those decisions, but I suspect it is going to look like a lot of perfectly financially viable companies turning into dumpster fires. Followed by opportunities as their clients churn.

Re: What if remote working, not AI, is to blame for weak junior hiring?

#145
In 2017, I wrote a blog post expressing some scepticism about the stampede toward remote work. This was well before the pandemic and before things hit a watershed with it. It occurred to me, then, that this would disrupt the pipeline for junior employees:

https://web.archive.org/web/20200925070728/https://likewise....

The point isn't to toot my horn, just to say that this seemed like an obvious problem with WFH even before the postpandemic cultural moment.

Re: What if remote working, not AI, is to blame for weak junior hiring?

#146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And companies nudge their employees to host interns to hopefully influence potentially-valuable-in-the-future smart youngsters to come back as a year or two later as full time employees. And there's less incentive to do this when you anticipate needing fewer employees.

His point is that the engineers wanting to opt for "not intern" isn't really a data point on whether interns are helpful. It may instead be a data point on the propensity for people to opt out of work when they have a good excuse.

Wouldn't it go the other way? Instead of working, you're "mentoring the intern" over a long lunch and telling them long meandering stories about company lore.

Re: What if remote working, not AI, is to blame for weak junior hiring?

#147
post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LLMs enable a new kind of text search. It looks like reasoning and intelligence, but it is not. For example, If you are not aware of Internet, you would consider a traditional internet search that comes up with a stackoverflow answer as a machine generating "novel ideas" and answers. It is a clever marketing trick (touting Erdos solutions) employeed by AI companies.

Reading comments like this is like watching an impaired pedestrian about to be run over by an approaching bus. You yell, you wave your arms, but they aren't paying attention. There's no way to warn them, so all you can do is... watch.

> There's no way to warn them, so all you can do is... watch

…and then wake up from the nightmare wishing the stress from the job is lower.

I can only laugh that some people truly believe that developers, one of the most ardent group at automating the tedious part of their job, would refuse to use an effective tool. You only need to look at the open source world to see people litterally scratching their own hitch everywhere.

Re: What if remote working, not AI, is to blame for weak junior hiring?

#148
post #143

The trouble with hiring juniors now is it's much more difficult to get them up to speed so they can be productive. Before covid, you'd sit next to them, get asked questions every so often, do some pair programming, and discuss ideas over lunch. You can, on paper, do the same exact things over Slack and Zoom. But there's much more friction. And a junior that's struggling is a lot less visible than it used to be. So wh…

Fully agree. I'm all for remote work. However, in my first 2 years of programming, being able to go the the office, put my laptop and notebook down next to a senior dev, point and say, "Help me," was so valuable.

Re: What if remote working, not AI, is to blame for weak junior hiring?

#149
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a startup, but real estate investors have a good chunk of shares of the company where I work and they can influence the decision makers just fine

I don't doubt what you're saying, but I don't these situations where real estate investors and company investors overlap and also want to micromanage the company's operations are common. The way this is brought up as a general explanation for RTO across the industry is getting a little silly

Office Real Estate used to be looked at as a very reliable investment. Good return for fixed income and reasonably safe when diversified across geographic locations. So lots of investment houses used REITs for some of their investments, pension funds, investment banks, even those companies that also invest in risky software startups. So you have this idea that there is a person called a "real estate investor", but really the majority of the people who invest money have some stake in office real estate. And those investments got crushed post-COVID. And they are salty about it and blame (probably correctly) remote work. Doesn't matter though, they took the risk and this time it didn't pan out for them so they don't have a real platform to complain. So they do this nonsense and trick a journalist into writing a hit piece.

Re: What if remote working, not AI, is to blame for weak junior hiring?

#150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

His point is that the engineers wanting to opt for "not intern" isn't really a data point on whether interns are helpful. It may instead be a data point on the propensity for people to opt out of work when they have a good excuse.

Wouldn't it go the other way? Instead of working, you're "mentoring the intern" over a long lunch and telling them long meandering stories about company lore.

In my experience hosting an intern does not count much towards your review. So sure, but you also could have done nothing and your review would probably be the same as if you hosted an intern.

It’s possible somewhere does properly incentivize this, but the companies who were regarded as doing it the best still don’t in my experience (at least once the company gets bigger than a startup).

Post reply on HN