Associative learning turns DEET from aversive to appetitive in Aedes aegypti • Hacker News Board

Re: Associative learning turns DEET from aversive to appetitive in Aedes aegypti

#41

Post by OutOfHere » Sun, May 31, 2026, 6:52 PM UTC

cbdevidal wrote: post #24

cbdevidal wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spray made from lemon eucalyptus works[1]. Not as well as DEET, but it works. [1] https://www.consumerreports.org/health/insect-repellent/oil-...

I don’t understand why sharing an objective study with good news would be downvoted, someone please explain? I’m not saying you have to use it; it’s good news for people who have concerns about other chemicals. It works—less effectively, but it works. “Repellants containing (..) oil of lemon eucalyptus have also been found to be effective.”[1] [1] Iowa Department of Health, “Controlling Spread of West Nile Virus“ htt…

To continue, I produced a researched NotebookLM video to communicate what needs understanding:

https://youtu.be/KW7CWgKbScA

⤷ The Responsibilities of a Free Mind: Cultivating Intellectual Independence

Re: Associative learning turns DEET from aversive to appetitive in Aedes aegypti

#42

Post by DannyBee » Sun, May 31, 2026, 10:55 PM UTC

I always found DEET interesting because it is a toluene derivative, which is why it is remarkably effective at destroying plastics and such, in addition to being a repellant. Yet people spray it with abandon and then wonder what melted their watch or glasses or …

Re: Associative learning turns DEET from aversive to appetitive in Aedes aegypti

#43

Post by DannyBee » Sun, May 31, 2026, 10:58 PM UTC

exabrial wrote: post #33

The answer is just to use Picaridin instead of DEET, or perhaps a combination of both. Picaridin is sold as "Off - Clean Feel" or in Sawyer products in the USA. The exact mechanism is not completely understood, but it's thought that DEET works because it interfere's with mosquitos ability to locate their prey. It is not thought to discourage bites as "they don't like the taste", just by interfering with sensing. A ne…

Picardin is based on the chemical that makes black pepper spicy, which is why it does that if you get it your eyes or mouth.

DEET is a toluene derivative which is why it is super effective at melting plastics and doesn’t evaporate quickly

It was actually discovered by massive brute force chemical search for repellants

Re: Associative learning turns DEET from aversive to appetitive in Aedes aegypti

#44

Post by [deleted] » Sun, May 31, 2026, 11:03 PM UTC

DannyBee wrote: post #43

exabrial wrote: post #33

The answer is just to use Picaridin instead of DEET, or perhaps a combination of both. Picaridin is sold as "Off - Clean Feel" or in Sawyer products in the USA. The exact mechanism is not completely understood, but it's thought that DEET works because it interfere's with mosquitos ability to locate their prey. It is not thought to discourage bites as "they don't like the taste", just by interfering with sensing. A ne…

Picardin is based on the chemical that makes black pepper spicy, which is why it does that if you get it your eyes or mouth. DEET is a toluene derivative which is why it is super effective at melting plastics and doesn’t evaporate quickly It was actually discovered by massive brute force chemical search for repellants

[deleted]

Re: Associative learning turns DEET from aversive to appetitive in Aedes aegypti

#45

Post by trhway » Sun, May 31, 2026, 11:16 PM UTC

adynaton wrote: post #21

trhway wrote: post #6

that explains. I was always wondering why in Siberia (where i worked for 2 summers back then at university times) coming out from house with freshly applied DEET you're getting covered with mosquitos - i was attributing that to the especial ferociousness of the mosquitos there - yet it sounds like the smell of DEET for them in those towns may have become like a BBQ smell for us :)

Damn, were you working at Tselinoyarsk?

not, yet places where i worked - Purovsk, Krasnosel'kup - 35 years ago were already having the things of the future like android driven large trucks (dead-drunk drivers with only basic lizard brain instincts operational during deep night cargo ship operations) and self-driving tracked construction equipment like cranes, etc - as they would follow deep tracks (koleya) in the unpaved roads not being able to get out of those tracks on their own, so the driver would get out and walk in the forest gathering mushrooms, etc. while the equipment would drive itself along those deep tracks. And having a wall-to-wall fight with "vahtoviks" beats the fun of fighting monsters in any game :)

Re: Associative learning turns DEET from aversive to appetitive in Aedes aegypti

#46

Post by cbdevidal » Mon, Jun 01, 2026, 1:06 AM UTC

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #38

cbdevidal wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spray made from lemon eucalyptus works[1]. Not as well as DEET, but it works. [1] https://www.consumerreports.org/health/insect-repellent/oil-...

It works, as do other plants with strong, lemon-y smells (like citronella and geraniums) but the problem with those concoctions is that they don't last long. I've used them a lot in the past and at most they'll last an hour or so. Their problem as far as I can tell is that they evaporate quickly and once you can't smell them anymore nor can the mosquitoes, and you're fair game again. DEET is so effective because its…

Yeah agreed, DEET lasts way longer. I personally don't trust it, so I'm not going to use it unless I really, really, really need it. I'd rather re-apply lemon eucalyptus every hour. I like the smell, too.

But I now tend to go without bug spray even though I live in Florida. Since I started eating strict carnivore mosquito bites no longer itch, which was unexpected but super helpful. I think because I'm not eating histamines. Mosquitoes are still annoying, but at least they don't itch.

Also, when we go camping it's usually in February, and I never have to use any spray at all then. Can sit outside for hours and hours.

Re: Associative learning turns DEET from aversive to appetitive in Aedes aegypti

#47

Post by guiambros » Mon, Jun 01, 2026, 1:51 AM UTC

fooqux wrote: post #34

I couldn't tell from the paper, but perhaps I missed it. Is this learned behavior hereditary?

It doesn't seem the case; the study was made purely on behavioral conditioning. And mosquitoes don't live very long, so it's unlikely they'd learn this in practice, outside of a very controlled environment.

But there's a natural selective pressure, and it's plausible that mosquitoes would eventually evolve their sensors to become attracted to DEET, over multiple generations. And with each generation lasting only 20-30 days and a single female mosquito laying 300-500 eggs in total, they can evolve orders of magnitude faster than us.

Re: Associative learning turns DEET from aversive to appetitive in Aedes aegypti

#48

Post by cbdevidal » Mon, Jun 01, 2026, 3:34 AM UTC

OutOfHere wrote: post #41

cbdevidal wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t understand why sharing an objective study with good news would be downvoted, someone please explain? I’m not saying you have to use it; it’s good news for people who have concerns about other chemicals. It works—less effectively, but it works. “Repellants containing (..) oil of lemon eucalyptus have also been found to be effective.”[1] [1] Iowa Department of Health, “Controlling Spread of West Nile Virus“ htt…

To continue, I produced a researched NotebookLM video to communicate what needs understanding: https://youtu.be/KW7CWgKbScA ⤷ The Responsibilities of a Free Mind: Cultivating Intellectual Independence

Excellent

Re: Associative learning turns DEET from aversive to appetitive in Aedes aegypti

#49

Post by gucci-on-fleek » Mon, Jun 01, 2026, 12:33 PM UTC

random3 wrote: post #37

exabrial wrote: post #33

The answer is just to use Picaridin instead of DEET, or perhaps a combination of both. Picaridin is sold as "Off - Clean Feel" or in Sawyer products in the USA. The exact mechanism is not completely understood, but it's thought that DEET works because it interfere's with mosquitos ability to locate their prey. It is not thought to discourage bites as "they don't like the taste", just by interfering with sensing. A ne…

That’s interesting! As I’m researching this (for my family) I have questions :) - have you tried entomol? How does it compare? - is it advisable with for young kids, if it’s irritant? - how long does it stay on? - what do you do when you get so many ticks on yourself? Watch if you get spots after 30 days? Entomol is hydrogenated catmint oil

> is it advisable with for young kids

I can't comment on the safety factor, but to me it smells like cotton candy, so your kids will probably be more willing to put it on than DEET. (I don't know if this is how the chemical inherently smells or just the brand that I have though)

> if it’s irritant?

You definitely don't want to get it in your eyes or mouth, but I have pretty sensitive skin and I've never felt anything when putting it on before, so it's not that irritating in my experience.

> how long does it stay on?

I seem to remember that the bottle says 12 hours, which is a bit optimistic, but not too far off. I think that I've only ever needed to reapply it once, whereas I've sometimes had to reapply DEET multiple times in a day.

Re: Associative learning turns DEET from aversive to appetitive in Aedes aegypti

#50

Post by pseudohadamard » Mon, Jun 01, 2026, 8:59 PM UTC

exabrial wrote: post #33

The answer is just to use Picaridin instead of DEET, or perhaps a combination of both. Picaridin is sold as "Off - Clean Feel" or in Sawyer products in the USA. The exact mechanism is not completely understood, but it's thought that DEET works because it interfere's with mosquitos ability to locate their prey. It is not thought to discourage bites as "they don't like the taste", just by interfering with sensing. A ne…

I've used picaridin and it seems to be minimally effective - the mosquitos won't land and bite, but they will whine endlessly in close proximity until their batteries run down.