Live data from Hacker News

Cloudflare Turnstile requiring fingerprintable WebGL

hacktivis.me

151–160 of 508 posts

Re: Cloudflare Turnstile requiring fingerprintable WebGL

#151

Is there a deal between Google and Cloudflare to make non-Chrome browsers harder to use? The pressure to use Chrome keeps increasing, and the amount of ad filtering you can do in Chrome keeps decreasing.

I would wager to guess its one of the nature consequences of Chrome being the most popular browser on the web. Most legit traffic will be from Chrome.

Re: Cloudflare Turnstile requiring fingerprintable WebGL

#153
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Use proof-of-work captchas, many are private by default. Look into Private Captcha or Cap captcha.

Speaking from the scraper’s perspective, I like proof of work; a ten year old 96-core server will cost a couple of quid to run for a few hours and will grab an absurd number of pages thanks to the access granted by repeatedly solving proofs of work. Small slick codebases too!

There's also the Anubis idea where your PoW is persistent until your IP address or session cookie changes, so you get to skip PoW in exchange for making yourself identifiable, which means the PoW can then be ramped up to take a couple of minutes.

I don't use Anubis though. I just make my site not take five seconds to render a page so bots can overload it easily? It's not actually that hard?

Re: Cloudflare Turnstile requiring fingerprintable WebGL

#154

So if you need to prevent bot abuse, but also don't want an ugly captcha every time someone goes to sign up, is there a better option?

Behavioral signals are the usual answer: risk-scored, invisible challenges; proof-of-work (cost without identity, though it taxes mobile); and signup-velocity/rate limits that stop cheap abuse before any challenge fires. The reason fingerprinting wins anyway is that it requires less operator effort, not that it is the only thing that works.

Re: Cloudflare Turnstile requiring fingerprintable WebGL

#155
post #30

This blog post is filled with false assumptions. >Turns out it's because Cloudflare wants to have a fingerprint of your device via WebGL, the only reason for doing this would be tracking. > So Cloudflare just banned all WebKitGTK browsers as I guess they put an exception for Safari. This is false. I ran firefox with: * hardware acceleration disabled (so software renderer, nothing to fingerprint) * resistfingerprintin…

I think your comment is also making plenty assumptions.. Official Firefox can be leaky unless you build it yourself with some build-time changes or use a fork with such[0]. Am I guessing right that you still have Webcompat, RemoteSettings, and Nimbus enabled still? How do you know a compatibility intervention isn't causing your browser to open the kimono just enough to "unbreak the page"? > My guess is that OP's brow…

>Official Firefox can be leaky unless you build it yourself with some build-time changes or use a fork with such[0]. Am I guessing right that you still have Webcompat, RemoteSettings, and Nimbus enabled still? How do you know a compatibility intervention isn't causing your browser to open the kimono just enough to "unbreak the page"?

See my other comment, tor browser works fine too: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48346659

Re: Cloudflare Turnstile requiring fingerprintable WebGL

#156

Cloudflare is known to use fingerprinting to detect scrapers For example, they use JA3 fingerprints and match them against the UA to block stuff like cURL while allowing OkHttp (Android clients) - but this can be easily be spoofed with packages such as CycleTLS [1]. I don't want to defend them, because they gate away a good chunk of the internet with their "bot protection", but unless you do PoW (which is also ecolog…

They're also anti free speech.

Re: Cloudflare Turnstile requiring fingerprintable WebGL

#157
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't want to defend them, because they gate away a good chunk of the internet with their "bot protection" They also gate away a good many people with their "bot protection". I am extremely worried about how so many seem to have outsourced the control over who can access their websites to a company, with no second thoughts whatsoever.

I can no longer access any website that's "protected" by Cloudflare. As soon a website enables that stuff… "Shoot, another one bites the dust." I wonder if the website owners realise at all how many actual users they lose by this sort of "protection."

>I wonder if the website owners realise at all how many actual users they lose by this sort of "protection."

How many people do you think are browsing with a weird enough config (eg. custom browser like OP, or some weird config like firefox with fingerprinting protection on a raspeberry pi) to trip cloudflare's protection?

Re: Cloudflare Turnstile requiring fingerprintable WebGL

#158
I always like the axiom with crime that once X% of the population are violating a statute then it should probably struck off. Recreational drugs being the obvious example.

If randomized canvas stuff was cracked down upon as a bot thing but now everyone with a copy of Firefox is doing it, maybe Cloudflare should just “legalize” it?

Re: Cloudflare Turnstile requiring fingerprintable WebGL

#160
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't want to defend them, because they gate away a good chunk of the internet with their "bot protection" They also gate away a good many people with their "bot protection". I am extremely worried about how so many seem to have outsourced the control over who can access their websites to a company, with no second thoughts whatsoever.

I can no longer access any website that's "protected" by Cloudflare. As soon a website enables that stuff… "Shoot, another one bites the dust." I wonder if the website owners realise at all how many actual users they lose by this sort of "protection."

I'm one of those who have enabled cloudflare on all of the sites I maintain. Additionally, Added turnstile on every form.

I know some actual users get blocked. But the amount of spam we get without it, the amount of bot traffic simply overwhelming the server... It is just too much.

Recently I also hard blocked all IPs from china Singapore India Pakistan Russia and whole of africa. Do I want to do it? No. But the amount of bot traffic and corresponding spam is a bigger problem :(

Post reply on HN