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AI job grief: A psychological crisis hitting tech workers

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Re: AI job grief: A psychological crisis hitting tech workers

#131

Post by simonw »

bluefirebrand wrote: post #126
simonw wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone had written it. It's well curated slop, but it's still slop. Consider this bit: > A profession does not need to be eliminated to be mourned. It is enough for its center to fall out, leaving the people who built careers in that center with credentials that no longer map to a stable role. When AI threatens the work, it threatens the self, which is why the response looks less like ordinary job-loss fear and m…

I don't mean to make a personal attack here, but you're one of the names I most associate with being AI positive on this site. In fact that's pretty much the only reason I recognize your name at all. Maybe I've misread your previous posts and the stuff from your blogs that have been posted here, but that's the vibe I've had from you. That said, slop is going to be a massive, natural, and utterly predictable consequen…

I'm actually credited on the Wikipedia page for "slop" for helping spread the term - I wrote about it right as it was emerging https://simonwillison.net/2024/May/8/slop/ and did some press interviews to push it around then too.

I'm up to 40 posts on my blog tagged "slop" now: https://simonwillison.net/tags/slop/

I consider covering AI misuse as part of my "beat" that I write about - there are so many bad ways to apply this stuff, and shining a light on those and explaining why they're bad seems like an important thing to spend time on.

Re: AI job grief: A psychological crisis hitting tech workers

#132

Post by galaxyLogic »

Not everybody can create and maintain their own applications even with the help of AI. And that would be wasteful because app is not made to serve a specific user but to accomplish specific tasks.

Therefore we will need people who are skilled at creating apps with the help of AI. AI can not do that for us, someone is needed to figure out what apps we need. So AI will empower programmers, not replace them. Of course if you are unwilling to learn how to use AI as part of your tool-chain you might lose your job.

Re: AI job grief: A psychological crisis hitting tech workers

#133

Post by denkmoon »

throw1234567891 wrote: post #117
pornel wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Such dismissive quip is unkind. The job has changed from a craft to operating an unreliable machine. Instead of satisfaction of solving challenging problems with your own skill and creativity, you babysit a text extruder and slog through mistakes in its generated output. Arguably this may make software cheaper to make and accessible to non-programmers, but for people who liked their job it's like being demoted from a…

Meh. Since when "typing" implies "solving challenging problems with your own skill and creativity". The "solving" and the "creativity" happen in your head while "typing" is a manual labor. I can contemplate multiple problems at the same time but I can only type one thing at a time. Writing code is like 10% of my programming job. I take an LLM to do the typing for me any day. I still solve challenging problems. Becaus…

You must truly have no love for your craft if you see "manually" writing code as _just_ typing. That's like calling writing a novel just dragging ink over paper.

Re: AI job grief: A psychological crisis hitting tech workers

#134

Post by taurath »

LilBytes wrote: post #2

Quotes from the article: 'Work as Identity: The Foundation' Knowledge workers hold a different relationship to their labor than manufacturing workers did. For a cognitive professional, expertise is not only an activity. It is a large part of the self. A data scientist who has spent a decade building statistical judgment does not experience that judgment as a detachable tool. It is closer to a personality trait. When…

Or just maybe it’s heavily economic. Yea there are many people with lots of money who are anxious about being rendered unneeded, but can we talk for a minute about all the people trying really hard to save who are needing to rent at market rates, or maybe they have a mortgage and desperately need their current income in order to not lose their home? Let alone that the people more likely to be replaced are those paid the least!

Re: AI job grief: A psychological crisis hitting tech workers

#135

Post by sodafountan »

denkmoon wrote: post #109

I’m close to despondent about how my job has changed. If the next 15 years of my life is just waiting on LLMs, I don’t think I can do it.

I just want you to know that you're not alone.

I'm terribly worried about my career as well. I built a large part of my identity around coding in my teens, and working in the industry when I got to my twenties were some of the happiest years of my life.

I was laid off from tech around the time that COVID hit, so this predates AI somewhat. I briefly became a contractor, but none of the contracts I was able to secure were renewed. I haven't worked in tech since 2023, right around the time I was introduced to AI.

They say that as you become more experienced in a domain, it should become easier and more lucrative... advancing in a career like tech should be a joy. With about seven years of experience, I can say that it hasn't been great. And aside from acquiring titles like junior and senior, there really isn't much advancement left after the 5-10 year mark.

I currently work in a grocery store and am giving that a shot, going to give it a good few years to see if I can advance through the different departments while I see how AI in the software industry pans out. The pay isn't nearly as good, and it's not something I'm passionate about; it's really quite mindless work. The positives are that I don't have to worry about outsourcing, or working from home, or massively disruptive technology like AI.

Throughout the latter half of my career, it almost felt as if every force was at play in killing what I was finally able to enjoy and also make a living from.

I wish I had something more positive to say, but as far as I'm concerned, I'm unfortunately stuck waiting this one out on the sidelines.

Here's wishing you the best for the future.

Re: AI job grief: A psychological crisis hitting tech workers

#136

Post by weregiraffe »

lowbloodsugar wrote: post #68

During Covid, we, the intellectual class, spent our year lamenting, explaining, meme-Ing, about what a change it was. Meanwhile, every day, billions of poorer people got up and went to their jobs as normal. I’m in lockdown and Grace, the grocery store clerk, is going to work just like any other day, just in a mask. We’re up in arms about AI. We’re asking what does a future where AI can do all the work look like. Wher…

[flagged]

Re: AI job grief: A psychological crisis hitting tech workers

#137

Post by mxkopy »

undeveloper wrote: post #97
StevenWaterman wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What happens if the checks stop rolling Late 18th century France

in a post gun warfare world where the state has weapons far exceeding what is legal or really possible for a organized militia to hold this is a pipe dream. muskets used to be state of the art.

All of these advanced death machines need equally advanced supply lines and staging grounds, both of which would run through civilian populations. Look at Afghanistan as an example: with all the might of its war machine the US couldn’t kick the Taliban out, who we love to tout as fighting with sticks and stones.

In fact the only issue stopping a worker’s revolution in the US is the lack of organization. The technology factor is really small in comparison to the inherent asymmetry of the situation.

Re: AI job grief: A psychological crisis hitting tech workers

#138

Post by dag100 »

krackers wrote: post #96
mewpmewp2 wrote: post #11

I am probably different to most people, but I always have trouble understanding why people want to have jobs so much. The obvious and direct answer immediately of course is "to be able to pay the bills". But of course if we automated those jobs with AI, we could direct AI produced value into universal basic income so people wouldn't lose their income. Then the concern is of course, that the owners will not share the…

>if we automated those jobs with AI, we could direct AI produced value into universal basic income We've seen this play out twice in history now (industrial revolution, then globalization/offshoring). Every time the pitch has been that automation would make life easier by trickling down the surplus productivity gains. And yet here we are still working 5 days a week with more intense competition than ever. Fool me onc…

> ChatGPT will not build housing, raise livestock, or perform surgery.

I have a bad feeling that it's closer than you'd expect at all three of those things. Especially the last one. Robo-surgeons, remotely controlled by another surgeon somewhere else, already exist. Maybe it won't happen in the next 5 years, but do you really think AI capabilities won't get there in 20-25 years or so?

Re: AI job grief: A psychological crisis hitting tech workers

#139

Post by bluefirebrand »

simonw wrote: post #131
bluefirebrand wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't mean to make a personal attack here, but you're one of the names I most associate with being AI positive on this site. In fact that's pretty much the only reason I recognize your name at all. Maybe I've misread your previous posts and the stuff from your blogs that have been posted here, but that's the vibe I've had from you. That said, slop is going to be a massive, natural, and utterly predictable consequen…

I'm actually credited on the Wikipedia page for "slop" for helping spread the term - I wrote about it right as it was emerging https://simonwillison.net/2024/May/8/slop/ and did some press interviews to push it around then too. I'm up to 40 posts on my blog tagged "slop" now: https://simonwillison.net/tags/slop/ I consider covering AI misuse as part of my "beat" that I write about - there are so many bad ways to appl…

I suppose if you really believe that there is actually a path forward to responsible AI usage, then more power to you. Best of luck, truly

I don't currently share that belief. I expect AI misuse to be the overwhelming majority of AI usage so personally I'm pretty much against it outright.

I know that's a losing battle though. Your approach is probably the more productive way forward.

Re: AI job grief: A psychological crisis hitting tech workers

#140

Post by dag100 »

undeveloper wrote: post #98
wiseowise wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> elitist junk masquerading as logic Lol. "Déformation professionnelle" is an elitist junk these days. It's a defect, and I would gladly get rid my brain of all this programming bullshit if my life didn't depend on it and I wouldn't hear from every fucking corner how: 1) During 2010-2015 Indians/Eastern Europeans/Outsource agencies are going to replace me 2) During 2015-2022 Bootcampers/kids working for a bowl of ric…

I'm still unsure why programming jobs haven't mostly been outsourced to India. Sure the contractors suck but people at IBM, India tend to write decent code for IBM, US.

It's because the people at IBM, India get paid multiple times what the contractors get paid. IBM, India, thus hires much better programmers than contractors. This sort of outsourcing isn't nearly as cheap - maybe half the income of a programmer in the US.
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