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The Last Technical Interview

steve-yegge.medium.com

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Re: The Last Technical Interview

#261

Post by kristjansson »

Internship etc. proposals miss that status quo job seeking is a parallel process for applicants. An internship model means each candidate can only “consider” one employer at a time. I think this is what Steve’s campfire proposal is trying to counter by making samples/internship outputs public?

I think the real solution is something like the Bar Exam. Apply the hard filter once, publicly, administered by a trusted neutral party. Anyone that gets through is assumed to be good enough, and interviews can assess only firm/team specifics

Re: The Last Technical Interview

#262

Post by masfuerte »

tptacek wrote: post #179
masfuerte wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine I'm an employer who wants to adopt this system. How can I distinguish the candidate who spent four hours from the candidate who spent twelve?

If you care, you enforce a time limit or have the work sample done on site. We simply don't care.

Thanks for clearing that up. So if you employ someone who's actually really slow then I guess you just fire them?

I'm based in the UK, where firing people is harder, so this wouldn't fly. That said, I know interviews are basically useless so I would like something better.

Re: The Last Technical Interview

#263

Post by tptacek »

masfuerte wrote: post #262
tptacek wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you care, you enforce a time limit or have the work sample done on site. We simply don't care.

Thanks for clearing that up. So if you employ someone who's actually really slow then I guess you just fire them? I'm based in the UK, where firing people is harder, so this wouldn't fly. That said, I know interviews are basically useless so I would like something better.

I have no idea. It's never happened.

Re: The Last Technical Interview

#264

Post by Schnitz »

cherry_tree wrote: post #258
Schnitz wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In practice, at any larger corporation with an HR department, despite the law saying so, you can absolutely not fire anyone for any reason. As a manager you’ll have to go through a 1+ month process of documented coaching, performance improvement plan, etc to gather evidence in case the employee sues after being let go. So not sure if Steve is technically correct here, but he is very much practically correct. It’s bee…

>at any larger corporation Like walmart, mcdonalds, amazon, target, home depot? It’s incredible how insulated the HN audience is to the real life day-to-day concerns of workers in the United States.

These companies do PIPs for software engineers, which is what Steve is talking about. He isn’t talking about a warehouse or fast food job interview. I am not insulated, I am merely staying on topic.

Re: The Last Technical Interview

#265

Post by QuiEgo »

cherry_tree wrote: post #256
QuiEgo wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can, but most places would rather spend months building a legal shield through a PiP rather than risk a lawsuit.

Most places? Are you a human? Have you been to the United States? Do you genuinely think McDonald’s is building a months long case against a fry cook? That Amazon is building a months long case against a delivery driver or warehouse worker who refused to pee in a bottle? That target is putting a cashier on a pip for months and allowing lost sales or theft?

The article is about tech interviews (and tech workers with the resources to sue), not McDonald’s or blue collar?

And yes, I’m human?

Strange comment internet stranger.

Re: The Last Technical Interview

#266

Post by alright2565 »

kristjansson wrote: post #261

Internship etc. proposals miss that status quo job seeking is a parallel process for applicants. An internship model means each candidate can only “consider” one employer at a time. I think this is what Steve’s campfire proposal is trying to counter by making samples/internship outputs public? I think the real solution is something like the Bar Exam. Apply the hard filter once, publicly, administered by a trusted neu…

This is what Triplebyte tried to do, but unfortunately they failed in the market. Maybe they were ahead of their time and a similar concept would work now.

Re: The Last Technical Interview

#267

Post by kristjansson »

alright2565 wrote: post #266
kristjansson wrote: post #261

Internship etc. proposals miss that status quo job seeking is a parallel process for applicants. An internship model means each candidate can only “consider” one employer at a time. I think this is what Steve’s campfire proposal is trying to counter by making samples/internship outputs public? I think the real solution is something like the Bar Exam. Apply the hard filter once, publicly, administered by a trusted neu…

This is what Triplebyte tried to do, but unfortunately they failed in the market. Maybe they were ahead of their time and a similar concept would work now.

Yeah I wrote “by a third party” then thought of them and revised to “trusted neutral party”. Has to be someone with ~no financial interest in the candidates success

Re: The Last Technical Interview

#268

Post by 1123581321 »

tcdent wrote: post #201
1123581321 wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve run a program like this. My answers to your objections are: You don’t run it for everyone, just people who seem good enough and are willing to do it. A resume filter and a 30-minute conversation are usually enough. You stop as soon as you’ve got your hire. If you’re bad at picking people for the screen, you learn the signals quickly because of your level of investment. It does replace a longer traditional interv…

This is my preferred proposal to new contacts as well (I set it up as a contract so there's a little less red tape, but even people that pursue me for traditional employment afterword usually land on an extended contract). Two things it solves: You get to evaluate me, my ability to deliver, and how I interact with your team and I either bring real value within two weeks, or I don't. I can tell you verbally I am an in…

Yes, that last bit is important. A good employer should welcome being evaluated as much or more as they’re evaluating.

Re: The Last Technical Interview

#269

Post by danieltanfh95 »

kristjansson wrote: post #261

Internship etc. proposals miss that status quo job seeking is a parallel process for applicants. An internship model means each candidate can only “consider” one employer at a time. I think this is what Steve’s campfire proposal is trying to counter by making samples/internship outputs public? I think the real solution is something like the Bar Exam. Apply the hard filter once, publicly, administered by a trusted neu…

The real solution is stop proposing solutions like a bar exam. Software engineering evolves too quickly for anything but a work sample to work.

Re: The Last Technical Interview

#270

Post by danieltanfh95 »

socratic_weeb wrote: post #64

The industry should get down from its egocentric ivory tower and start hiring like other industries. You are not special, tech. Just have a sort of bar exam you have to take every x amount of years. The actual interview should just be an in-person behavioral one, with your future boss. Period. Don't get enough signal from that? Sorry, that's life, taking risks. Imagine trying to open a business without taking risks,…

This is why we need interviews to filter off people who are bad enough to think "bar exam" is the right abstraction for software engineer.
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