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WH proposes rules giving political appointees final approval on research grants

scientificamerican.com

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Re: WH proposes rules giving political appointees final approval on research grants

#451

Post by mcphage »

shaftoe wrote: post #321
mcphage wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If they don’t, you know that they also agreed with it - this handwringing now is just for show. No, the left should use the things right broke to abuse the right—just like the right is breaking everything to abuse the left. Otherwise the right will never learn why breaking things is a bad idea, and they’ll just keep on breaking everything like they have been for my entire life and before.

Pretty sure the right generally believes the left has been doing the same. Previously, it was a more libertarian and constitutional argument: progressive causes since the new deal have assumed powers not granted. More recently this has completely flipped to a populist culture war argument that the left, in excesses seen in the DEI hayday before COVID, has lost its mind and began attacking and punishing people. My poi…

> Pretty sure the right generally believes the left has been doing the same.

That’s all the more reason to do it. The right believes lots of things that aren’t so, so learning what abuse actually is might stop them from crying wolf in the future.

Re: WH proposes rules giving political appointees final approval on research grants

#452

Post by kashunstva »

throwaway902984 wrote: post #428
boothby wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Canadian on a hiring committee, it's fascinating to talk to Americans who hate the political environment but still don't want to relocate.

Canada has a fairly tough points system around their immigration doesn't it? Lone, high income developers are what it seems the system is made to attract, but a whole family?

My wife is an academic surgical subspecialist and had no difficulties with immigration from the U.S. to Canada. At the time I was taking a pause in my career to homeschool our daughter. This was over a decade ago. The points system fluctuates dynamically according to the needs of the labour market, so things may be different now. But I was even issued an open work permit at the time. And different labour categories may have different situations.

Re: WH proposes rules giving political appointees final approval on research grants

#453

Post by appreciatorBus »

gwerbin wrote: post #168

More of the same at this point. If you are politically connected, or stay in an narrow lane of approved work, you get your grant. But if you stray from the politically approved path, or appear disloyal to our First Citizen and the Party, then your grant will be canceled. The remaining supporters of the incumbent party like to claim that they aren't actually doing anything worse than in the past, and if anything they…

[flagged]

Re: WH proposes rules giving political appointees final approval on research grants

#454

Post by throwaway902984 »

kashunstva wrote: post #452
throwaway902984 wrote: post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canada has a fairly tough points system around their immigration doesn't it? Lone, high income developers are what it seems the system is made to attract, but a whole family?

My wife is an academic surgical subspecialist and had no difficulties with immigration from the U.S. to Canada. At the time I was taking a pause in my career to homeschool our daughter. This was over a decade ago. The points system fluctuates dynamically according to the needs of the labour market, so things may be different now. But I was even issued an open work permit at the time. And different labour categories m…

Thanks for commenting with your experience - that helps frame it somewhat, that a skilled worker may qualify their family. The proof of funds requirement seems like the term used, referred to here [1]. Still a lot of money but less than I was directly told recently, so it is possible word of mouth may have exaggerated this a tad.

If you don't my asking, was your wife's profession, rather than her income directly, taken into account significantly? Thanks again

[1] https://prepareforcanada.com/blog/managing-money/financial-f...

Re: WH proposes rules giving political appointees final approval on research grants

#455

Post by runako »

rayiner wrote: post #281
jaredklewis wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment suggests you think cronyism was in some part responsible for America's rise as a global power. Common sense would indicate that we became a power despite the cronyism, not because it, and you've provided nothing to support your wildly counter intuitive claim. This is your comment basically: People really need to read their history. When America definitively surpassed the UK in 1880 as the richest country…

> Your comment suggests you think cronyism was in some part responsible for America's rise as a global power. Not at all. My comment was that America’s good run began a century before the 20th century practice of administration through independent experts. Thus, such administration cannot be a necessary condition for America’s “good run” as OP suggested.

Worth noting that the period you indicate is a an example of an America largely deploying inventions from the UK (e.g. the steam engine, steam locomotive, etc.).

The latter part of the 20th century and first part of this century is a story more of the US driving invention and deploying those inventions.

The techniques needed to go from lesser power to leading power are different from those needed to advance as a leading power. For Lebron to stay on top, he has to do different things than any of us would need to do to get into the NBA.

Different circumstances & different goals require different strategies.

Re: WH proposes rules giving political appointees final approval on research grants

#456

Post by sseagull »

yareally wrote: post #356
sseagull wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The chaos is affecting pretty much all areas of science, not just the controversial ones. I work in non-controversial, pretty run-of-the-mill chemistry research and the attacks on the NSF have certainly impacted our funding situation. Very long delays in proposal review, complete pivoting to AI, etc. I have co-workers panicking over the green card changes. And the overall morale is pretty grim everywhere. Edit: don’t…

I work for an org that makes research software for chemistry and other branches of science and it's definitely hit us in sales. No one wants to spend money if they don't know if they're going to get or keep the grants they petitioned for.

Oh I’m sure we could commiserate about that. I think we work in vaguely the same area.

Unfortunately, getting money from industry isn’t much easier in my opinion.

We have some software projects we want to spin out into a small business or non-profit (because federal funding…), but industry is absolutely cold right now. Had a few very promising partners lined up, but it all evaporated last spring. Between tariffs, AI spending, and now oil, everyone is reluctant to spend.

Re: WH proposes rules giving political appointees final approval on research grants

#457

Post by runako »

kelnos wrote: post #125
stouset wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or Trump himself would simply refuse to step down, and have the might of the U.S. military brass behind him. If you can’t tell, I am not hopeful.

> and have the might of the U.S. military brass behind him Would he, though? I know the top US military brass have gone through some changes during this administration, but if the military sees a lawful impeachment and lawful conviction, I think enough would refuse (clearly illegal) orders to keep Trump in the White House. Honestly I'd be more worried about the loyalists at the top of the FBI, US Marshals, Secret Ser…

> I think enough would refuse (clearly illegal) orders

The military executes clearly illegal orders to attack civilians on speedboats in the Pacific a couple of times a week. Not infrequently, they also kill the occupants when they are surrendering.

Re: WH proposes rules giving political appointees final approval on research grants

#458

Post by m0llusk »

platevoltage wrote: post #392
m0llusk wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a lot of private funding available with a broad range of targets and boundaries.

If we aren't funding progress with our tax dollars then what are we even doing?

Getting the government together is absolutely something we should do. If you are serious about science and technology then there are funds available and moving to Europe is not necessarily the only strategy. Do you really think that scientists who move to Europe to practice will be the people who turn America back around?

Re: WH proposes rules giving political appointees final approval on research grants

#459

Post by evrydayhustling »

sandworm101 wrote: post #385
evrydayhustling wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Besides the brutal impact on those already invested in the American research community, this is one more nail in the coffin when it comes to competing for new talent. What researcher in their right mind would move their research and their future to the USA to join this clown rodeo? It is unbelievable to watch my country give up its most unfair (and yet mostly positive) advantage -- a nearly free option on the top tal…

Well, any research related to weapons programs. Jobs/grants in the fields of laser research, AI, material sciences, mathematics, chemistry and aerospace are safe... so long as you dont talk to outsiders.

Friends on ML/AI hiring committees at top tier university are seeing foreign profs turn away record offers. Same for applied math relevant to material science.

I expect you are right at the most specialized end of the spectrum (and certainly industrial labs in those areas), but I wonder if anyone can speak directly to where we are still globally competitive.

Re: WH proposes rules giving political appointees final approval on research grants

#460

Post by Redoubts »

mschuster91 wrote: post #431
inglor_cz wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$$$$$ > €€€ or ££ With a few exceptions like Switzerland, American levels of compensation for highly qualified people just can't be matched anywhere in the Western world. Saudi Arabia or UAE maybe, but these don't even try to pretend to be socially and politically liberal.

> With a few exceptions like Switzerland, American levels of compensation for highly qualified people just can't be matched anywhere in the Western world. Gross compensation yes. But if you begin deducting stuff like the absurd American housing costs, private healthcare, saving up for deductibles, the need to own, insure, fuel and maintain a car to do everything because almost nothing is accessible by public transpor…

I mean the salary difference is a few hundred k, so this all just reads like cope.
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