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To have a moral stance on AI is to be an outcast, and it sucks

musings.martyn.berlin

71–80 of 339 posts

Re: To have a moral stance on AI is to be an outcast, and it sucks

#71
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parts of it (e.g. water consumption per query) are overblown. But the degree of data center buildout and resource use, if exponential growth just continues a little longer, is going to end up being a big number. AI datacenters are already stretching electrical power grids and increasing peaker power plant use. Data centers right now are about 5% of electricity use in the US. AI could easily double that share.

I was thinking about this the other day. Surely, a datacenter, even one optimized for machine learning workloads could switch gears and do other kinds of computations. Even if the bubble were to pop, i feel like the worst that could happen is that we would have a bunch of inactive datacenters that could be switched on to meet demands of the growing internet. Kind of like how nuclear plants operate. cmiiw to think alo…

Well, stuff tends not to get completely wasted, but:

- AI datacenters are gold-rush rush jobs with interesting things like their own gas turbine generators etc.

- It's not clear that serving the internet needs us to double the amount of datacenter footprint. If anything, a lot of workloads are getting more power and space efficient.

- Most expensive thing is that we're filling them full of GPUs and with RAM tied up to the GPUs. That's infrastructure that we've paid the resource costs for and it's difficult to repurpose to something else.

I do think AI is going to grow a lot, so I'm not sure how much of the buildout will need repurposing. But I do think doubling our datacenter footprint and doing it in environmentally yucky ways will probably have some lasting effects and consume a lot of resources.

Re: To have a moral stance on AI is to be an outcast, and it sucks

#72

I think many of us actually have a moral stance on AI, it's just that it's somewhat similar to our moral stance on cars, power tools, heavy machinery, the loom, etc.

For sure, and for me that means AI tech is a great moral good like all human productivity improving technology.

Re: To have a moral stance on AI is to be an outcast, and it sucks

#74

>This makes me an outcast. In tech, and out of it. In tech, maybe. Out of tech? No way. A bunch of surveys show that people are mostly negative on AI. For example: https://www.pewresearch.org/science/2025/09/17/how-americans...

I don't work in tech (school teacher), so the main way I interact with tech people is online.

IME, everyone I meet offline has some low-level caution about AI taking their job, but uses AI and is amazed by their capabilities and is glad for this tool.

Most ppl I meet online are strong anti-AI advocates.

Re: To have a moral stance on AI is to be an outcast, and it sucks

#75
Holy cow this is whiny And essentially saying no one else has morals… yikes.

Other people do understand AI sucks and are even anti ai while still using it… personally I have been anti tech forever (When it comes to privacy, bot misinformation, psychological health, all of it) but yeah dude I still use it and have a job in it bc it’s paying bills and it supports our family and there are some good things about it it’s not all bad.

In terms of actually trying to create a revolution in tech (unionizing, making change, ending it, whatever you think) I would love to see the bad things go but I don’t see it being possible. It’s like saying: I don’t like cars (and I’m better than everyone else bc I walk) bc cars are bad for the environment and people die STOP DRIVING CARS… there’s absolutely no way people are going to stop driving cars.

Re: To have a moral stance on AI is to be an outcast, and it sucks

#76
post #24

It's funny, I have the opposite experience of everyone around me hating AI. I'm not aggressively pro-AI around them at all but you aren't allowed to have any positive or nuanced opinion of the tech. I'm used to it though, I've been excited by the concept of AI since reading about Turing and such as a child 20 years ago. The idea has always been met with negativity, IMO because people want to feel that they have a par…

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Re: To have a moral stance on AI is to be an outcast, and it sucks

#77

I think many of us actually have a moral stance on AI, it's just that it's somewhat similar to our moral stance on cars, power tools, heavy machinery, the loom, etc.

Thank you for putting this in more generalized terms. I was just thinking replace AI with smart phone and this reads the same.

Re: To have a moral stance on AI is to be an outcast, and it sucks

#78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was thinking about this the other day. Surely, a datacenter, even one optimized for machine learning workloads could switch gears and do other kinds of computations. Even if the bubble were to pop, i feel like the worst that could happen is that we would have a bunch of inactive datacenters that could be switched on to meet demands of the growing internet. Kind of like how nuclear plants operate. cmiiw to think alo…

These are more like HPC supercomputers than garden variety datacenters. That's why there's so much concern re: water use for the electricity being supplied. (That's easy to address in principle, of course: wind and solar power use up negligible amounts of water compared to other sources.)

Most of the water concern is evaporative cooling of the datacenter itself. But IMO not too much of a concern. The energy use and the resource use to make the chips, etc, is bigger.

Re: To have a moral stance on AI is to be an outcast, and it sucks

#79
post #31

Controversial take: It's weird to see people in tech taking this stance. They've been riding the same wave of exploiting the average person through economies of scale for the last 20+ years, but now that it affects them, it's suddenly catastrophic. You dont get to benefit from the expansion of companies like Uber, airbnb or meta, then pretend like you were always focused on the success of the average person. You didn…

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Re: To have a moral stance on AI is to be an outcast, and it sucks

#80
post #31

Controversial take: It's weird to see people in tech taking this stance. They've been riding the same wave of exploiting the average person through economies of scale for the last 20+ years, but now that it affects them, it's suddenly catastrophic. You dont get to benefit from the expansion of companies like Uber, airbnb or meta, then pretend like you were always focused on the success of the average person. You didn…

It's weird for physicists to complain about nuclear weapons. They did it. Own it.
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