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Danish Pension Blacklists SpaceX over 'Catastrophic Governance'

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Re: Danish Pension Blacklists SpaceX over 'Catastrophic Governance'

#471

Post by pja »

epolanski wrote: post #378
brikym wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I knew that would be a Ben Felix vid. He's awesome.

It's important to note, that whether it's intentional (doubt) or genuine mistake, he's misleading viewers when he says that Dimensional has outperformed other funds or indexes. In fact most of the Dimensional funds have underperformed markets, and they do so at higher (albeit approachable) TERs of 0.25. There's a (rather short for his standards) video made by Paolo Coletti, professor of financial economy at Trento ab…

Most of the Dimensional ETFs seem to be following some kind of value investment strategy where they take an index but nudge it a bit by some value factor which is claimed to be based on long standing research. It wouldn’t be surprising if this value factor has underperformed in recent years which have been dominated by the rise of growth stocks. The video you link to seems to be talking about these ETFs, although I haven’t dived into the numbers.

As far as I can tell the straightforward US & world equity ETFs I’m referring to above don’t have this value bias.

Re: Danish Pension Blacklists SpaceX over 'Catastrophic Governance'

#472

Post by ninalanyon »

tordrt wrote: post #446
fpoling wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If oil and gas would not exist, then liquid fuel would be produced from coal. With the latest processes the cost of production is like 80 dollars per barrel, but with processes that Germans developed during WWII it was probably like twice of that in modern money. In alternative universe that would be cheaper due to massive scale, but the era of very cheap liquid fuel would never happen. So electrical cars on big scal…

I dont think this makes sense, given how insanely much more polluting coal is. You have to burn massive amounts of coal to power the liquid refinery, 50% of the energy lost essentially in the conversion process. In addition to that liquid coal has double the emissions of regular oil. Air quality would have been a disaster. EVs in scale would have maybe happened sooner, but they would have give us much less value, and…

> Air quality would have been a disaster.

What do you mean would have been? It was a disaster. Perhaps you are too young or insufficiently well travelled to have experienced the effects of burning coal in, say the UK in the 1950s and 1960s or in China even in the last few decades.

Without oil the push to solar and wind would also have been accelerated, probably.

What is it about oil and as that you think made it accelerate semiconductor R&D?

Re: Danish Pension Blacklists SpaceX over 'Catastrophic Governance'

#473

Post by MrBuddyCasino »

copx wrote: post #406
jiggawatts wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "space economy" is not yet a certainty, other than in the mind of science fiction fans. (Unsurprisingly, hard to reach irradiated rocks of undifferentiated boring minerals in a cold vacuum are of negligible value to humans here on Earth.) Even if the Star Trek utopian future materialises, it is very likely to be a long time from now . 1. SpaceX has competitors. Most are making reusable rockets. 2. SpaceX has no m…

>The "space economy" is not yet a certainty True, and that's exactly the reason why people want to buy this stock now. If future returns were already (almost) certain, they would have been priced in and you couldn't make any money with this stock. This is a classic high risk / high reward stock. IF the space economy takes off you might 10X your investment. If it doesn't, you might lose most of it. Rich people (who ow…

This is the only sane reply so far, and being on HN (notably a VCs platform) this is rather sad.

Re: Danish Pension Blacklists SpaceX over 'Catastrophic Governance'

#474

Post by fpoling »

tordrt wrote: post #446
fpoling wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If oil and gas would not exist, then liquid fuel would be produced from coal. With the latest processes the cost of production is like 80 dollars per barrel, but with processes that Germans developed during WWII it was probably like twice of that in modern money. In alternative universe that would be cheaper due to massive scale, but the era of very cheap liquid fuel would never happen. So electrical cars on big scal…

I dont think this makes sense, given how insanely much more polluting coal is. You have to burn massive amounts of coal to power the liquid refinery, 50% of the energy lost essentially in the conversion process. In addition to that liquid coal has double the emissions of regular oil. Air quality would have been a disaster. EVs in scale would have maybe happened sooner, but they would have give us much less value, and…

In 1920 in Berlin there were more electrical taxes than gasoline one. But cheap gasoline killed electrical car industry.

Without that electrical cars would proceed to develop and batteries with high capacity would happen much sooner.

As for pollution it would not be that bad. Fuel would be expensive and cars with combustion engines would not happen on massive scale. There would be much more freight by trains and nuclear energy would be developed on much bigger scale.

Re: Danish Pension Blacklists SpaceX over 'Catastrophic Governance'

#475

Post by eigenspace »

eigenspace wrote: post #415
tordrt wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Slavery is evil. Fossil fuels is actually still a net good for humanity. E.g. the consequences of removing access to these energy sources, would be overwhelmingly more negative for humanity right now, than the consequence of global warming. The transition is moving ahead, it just takes time, and we need more technological breakthroughs and innovation. Trying to attack production instead of solving demand, can cause s…

Oh sorry, I forgot to look at my D&D alignment charts before making my comment, I didnt realize that slavery was evil and thus impermissible. I guess there's no possible comparison to be made with other economic practices that cause massive harm to some people, but benefit others in the short term. For the sake of argument though, what if we lived in a situation where a very large portion of our agriculture, and othe…

I just find it so funny how this person is willing to use completely different ethical frameworks in the same sentence when talking about slavery, versus when talking about fossil fuels.

With fossil fuels, we go and start talking about 'net benefits', and we're willing to accept some catastrophically bad effects in order to reap some benefits, but then when the conversation is about slavery suddenly we switch to toddler ethics of "that's evil." without any consideration for weighing the positives and negatives.

Re: Danish Pension Blacklists SpaceX over 'Catastrophic Governance'

#477

Post by AngryData »

tordrt wrote: post #396
Gomotono wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thats not true. We don't know if we would be able to be were we at. There is also no value in this. If we owuldn't known about progress through oil and gas, who would say that we would be unable to get to the same point just a 100 years later? No own would be hurt if we would have achieved this 100 years later but healthier. It was also ignored on purpose. Oil companies knew very well, researchers knew. Apparently th…

How would we do the whole industrial revolution thing on whale oil and lumber? Whales would most certainly be extinct by now, thats for sure. 100 years later is an immense amount of extra human suffering, not to say that reaching current level would most certainly take much much longer than 100 extra years. Im sorry but this whole tirade is just delusional. Its cheaper and better to replace all use of fossil fuels wi…

Would you say the same thing about human suffering if the bronze age was 100 years later? And what about all the suffering and deaths from the pollution? Or the massive global wars fossil fuels enabled? Because without massive oil and gas reserves both WWI and WWII would have been far harder to sustain or commit to in the first place.

With such a massive shift in politics and technology with a lack of fossil fuels I think it is near impossible to compare the modern world to a world without those.

Re: Danish Pension Blacklists SpaceX over 'Catastrophic Governance'

#478

Post by epolanski »

pja wrote: post #471
epolanski wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's important to note, that whether it's intentional (doubt) or genuine mistake, he's misleading viewers when he says that Dimensional has outperformed other funds or indexes. In fact most of the Dimensional funds have underperformed markets, and they do so at higher (albeit approachable) TERs of 0.25. There's a (rather short for his standards) video made by Paolo Coletti, professor of financial economy at Trento ab…

Most of the Dimensional ETFs seem to be following some kind of value investment strategy where they take an index but nudge it a bit by some value factor which is claimed to be based on long standing research. It wouldn’t be surprising if this value factor has underperformed in recent years which have been dominated by the rise of growth stocks. The video you link to seems to be talking about these ETFs, although I h…

The value ones mentioned by Felix do.

Re: Danish Pension Blacklists SpaceX over 'Catastrophic Governance'

#479

Post by jghn »

bko wrote: post #440
myk9001 wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Let the market decide... They're changing the rules on inclusion ... You have the market deciding and the rules changing in the same paragraph and nothing's bothering you. I genuinely envy your peace of mind, my friend. Some of us are truly blessed.

The rules changed because it's unprecedented. It's not complicated. If your job is to "track the market" and there is this company that is worth $1+ trillion, you're not doing your job if you don't have exposure to this company. Just be honest with yourself. The only reason you and others have an issue is because of politics. You don't like Musk for whatever reason and now you're very opinionated about the internal w…

Ignoring the moral questions, the issue is that the old waiting period had a purpose. The market *isn't* getting an opportunity to decide here. There's a concern that these are a glorified pump & dump where initial investors extract all the value via the IPO and then the price craters once it's on the open market.

It'd be nice to give the market a period of time to figure out what it *really* values these companies.

Re: Danish Pension Blacklists SpaceX over 'Catastrophic Governance'

#480

Post by petra »

noodlesUK wrote: post #371

I think European countries need to get serious about investing money locally. The UK is a particularly egregious example but it’s taking begging and pleading with the mansion house accord to even convince pensions to try to invest in the UK economy. Every country should make a portion of local (at least within Europe) investment a prerequisite for whatever favourable tax treatment pensions and similar products get. S…

Does the EU has an index that is competitive with the SP500 over the long term?
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