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Danish Pension Blacklists SpaceX over 'Catastrophic Governance'

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Re: Danish Pension Blacklists SpaceX over 'Catastrophic Governance'

#291

Post by Luc »

ifwinterco wrote: post #284
devlovstad wrote: post #258

I have AkademikerPension as my pension fund through work and this move suits me quite well. They've already excluded Tesla as well as a variety of companies that profit of weapon production, fossil fuel production or are suspected for human rights violations. https://akademikerpension.dk/ansvarlighed/ekskluderede-selsk...

How does Tesla fit with the rest of those? I'm not a huge fan of Elon Musk but Tesla is a company that produces electric cars (mostly in western countries with half-decent labour laws), it's not associated with any of those things. I guess one could argue with some merit that the governance is bad enough to exclude it on that basis alone?

"Danish pension company Akademikir Pension has announced it will divest from Tesla due to ongoing concerns about labour rights, corporate governance, and Tesla CEO and co-founder, Elon Musk's behaviour."

https://www.europeanpensions.net/ep/Denmarks-Akademiker-Pens...

Re: Danish Pension Blacklists SpaceX over 'Catastrophic Governance'

#292

Post by Matl »

ifwinterco wrote: post #284
devlovstad wrote: post #258

I have AkademikerPension as my pension fund through work and this move suits me quite well. They've already excluded Tesla as well as a variety of companies that profit of weapon production, fossil fuel production or are suspected for human rights violations. https://akademikerpension.dk/ansvarlighed/ekskluderede-selsk...

How does Tesla fit with the rest of those? I'm not a huge fan of Elon Musk but Tesla is a company that produces electric cars (mostly in western countries with half-decent labour laws), it's not associated with any of those things. I guess one could argue with some merit that the governance is bad enough to exclude it on that basis alone?

Tesla is known for hazardous factory conditions, worker mistreatment etc.[1]

Then there's the autopilot misleading marketing, Cybertruck being glued together with spit glue and duct tape etc.

1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Tesla,_Inc.#Worki...

Re: Danish Pension Blacklists SpaceX over 'Catastrophic Governance'

#294

Post by eigenspace »

kergonath wrote: post #277
Drakim wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could also transfer the heat to tungsten rods and drop them on rivaling earth-bound data centers.

Why tungsten? In terms of thermal conductivity, It’s way worse than silver and copper and on par with good aluminium alloys. Those are cheaper and much lighter (so again much cheaper to put into orbit).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinetic_bombardment

The idea is to use tungsten because of the high melting point and hardness so that it survives re-entry in order to best strike the rival datacentre.

Re: Danish Pension Blacklists SpaceX over 'Catastrophic Governance'

#295

Post by pimeys »

carlosjobim wrote: post #266
pimeys wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Nordic (Finland), I think this is true. In the history, US has been always admired and we've loved to travel there and cherish the culture. Damn, I was there when Conan O'Brien traveled to Helsinki, and greeting him with this massive crowd of people who really love him. I married an American, I've traveled through the country multiple times with my partner. Love the food, people, the nature, the cities. But this…

> The idea of crossing the border and having to flip a coin is the border control guy a nice guy or not That is nothing new. It's how it's been forever. And not only arriving in the USA, but also Canada, Germany and other places.

Well... Strip searching and jailing young German girls in the border is not something I hear happening very often in countries like Canada, Germany, Denmark, Finland... Actually I have not heard that happening even once! My American partner has crossed the German border countless of times from US. Before they got an EU passport, even then the border queue was prompt and the guard sometimes asked a joke in German and a minute later let them pass.

I waited hours in Newark even before the current joke of a government. The risk of being in a jail without my phone which has a life-saving app to manage my diabetes is a risk I am not going to take.

Re: Danish Pension Blacklists SpaceX over 'Catastrophic Governance'

#296

Post by UltraSane »

Hendrikto wrote: post #231
swingboy wrote: post #226

Apologies for the naivety, but, why is SpaceX valued so high? Starlink? Are rockets really a lucrative business? Don’t get me wrong, being able to send objects up into orbit is cool, but is it $1.8T cool?

Because of the Musk reality distortion field. The claim is that all data centers will move into space, and that SpaceX will completely own that market.

I truly do not understand why anyone believes anything Musk says anymore.

Re: Danish Pension Blacklists SpaceX over 'Catastrophic Governance'

#297

Post by apexalpha »

devlovstad wrote: post #258

I have AkademikerPension as my pension fund through work and this move suits me quite well. They've already excluded Tesla as well as a variety of companies that profit of weapon production, fossil fuel production or are suspected for human rights violations. https://akademikerpension.dk/ansvarlighed/ekskluderede-selsk...

Defensive weapons are very much needed in Europe…

Re: Danish Pension Blacklists SpaceX over 'Catastrophic Governance'

#298

Post by UltraSane »

Tepix wrote: post #255
swingboy wrote: post #226

Apologies for the naivety, but, why is SpaceX valued so high? Starlink? Are rockets really a lucrative business? Don’t get me wrong, being able to send objects up into orbit is cool, but is it $1.8T cool?

We know that xAI (with X) is struggling. SpaceX is growing quite slowly. You could argue that Starship is likely to somewhat accelerate growth. Starlink is doing well but also growing somewhat slow. A more rational valuation would be 900b-1000b. The rest is Musk and FOMO.

Starship is currently a money pit.

Re: Danish Pension Blacklists SpaceX over 'Catastrophic Governance'

#299

Post by cj »

originalvichy wrote: post #181
spacebanana7 wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not Anthropic? They’re a very rare company capable of charging $200 per month per seat level fee across the corporate workforce. Yes their compute costs are astronomical, but that can be managed down over time by more efficiency or mild enshittification that doesn’t create too much churn.

You would think you’re investing in a software technology company, but after reading a bit of news stories, you realize you’re quite literally funding war crimes. If I invested in an arms company, I’d have reasonable expectations about what I invest in. Investing in Anthropic at surface level looks like investing in software for hobbies and business. It’s pretty depressing to be honest. I don’t know how I could work…

Replace "war crimes" with "hardware" and it's an equally good reason not to invest.

They're valued like software companies, but they have terrible margins compared to software. Investors haven't figured out how to value these companies.

Re: Danish Pension Blacklists SpaceX over 'Catastrophic Governance'

#300

Post by notarobot123 »

sgt wrote: post #285
petterroea wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Norway the oil fund are actively arguing against boycotting these kinds of companies saying, and I paraphrase: "but our job is to earn money and we can't do that if you hippies keep standing in the way with your morals" Good to see it isn't necessarily the case.

[flagged]

I've always wondered, do people who complain about virtue signaling just simply not believe in the concept of virtues or integrity at all? Human nature is pure vice mediated by violence and contract law, that's it.

I get the cynicism about performative acts vs. authentic values but where's the line? Putting your money where your mouth is has to count for something.

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