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It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

jeffgeerling.com

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Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#391

Post by shepherdjerred »

kevinrineer wrote: post #257
teaearlgraycold wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't want my computer to update itself without my permission Does this happen on MacOS? I don’t think I’ve experienced this.

For an MDM managed computer (JAMF I know for sure), it can be configured that way per a company policy. I am not 100% sure of the answer for a computer not managed by JAMF as I have not experienced a forced update while using a non-MDM managed Mac in ~1.5 years of using a pre-owned M1.

An MDM device is not owned by the user. Of course you’re not going to have control over the device.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#392

Post by kamranjon »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #327
kamranjon wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe it's what Linus Torvalds uses.

Fedora https://www.reddit.com/r/Fedora/comments/1pb8lgz/linus_torva...

My info might be a few years old, but I think he uses it on his laptop machine.

https://lwn.net/Articles/903023/

"On a personal note, the most interesting part here is that I did the release (and am writing this) on an arm64 laptop. It's something I've been waiting for for a _loong_ time, and it's finally reality, thanks to the Asahi team. We've had arm64 hardware around running Linux for a long time, but none of it has really been usable as a development platform until now."

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#393

Post by nozzlegear »

cloverich wrote: post #366
nozzlegear wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this just "Person discovers DRM, c. 2026" dressed up as a complaint about Apple?

That's a bit disingenuous isn't it? Being unable to use any screenshot tool to capture an image on my laptop's browser was surprising to me, yes. Or are you arguing that Apple's implementations are no more restrictive than on any linux machine, so as such there is no case to be made for anything DRM related that a non-Apple device is superior (less limiting) in any way? Or... I suppose what is your actual argument he…

No I don't think it's disingenuous – indeed, it seemed to me that you were being disingenuous. My actual argument is that you're confusing Netflix's use of DRM for "Apple's implementation," without acknowledging that you'd have this exact same problem on Windows and Android devices. That Linux doesn't have it is just testament to the fact that hardly anyone, comparatively speaking, actually uses Linux as a daily driver (and, notably, Netflix doesn't let you watch high definition video on Linux anyway).

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#394

Post by rmunn »

OJFord wrote: post #340
drnick1 wrote: post #137

The point of the Framework is to run Linux, and not to be part of Apple's ecosystem. I don't want my computer to update itself without my permission, report telemetry to Apple, upload anything to any "cloud" or request that I log into something. If you don't think this is a big deal, wait until an age or identity verification law is passed somewhere, and Apple will enforce it against your will, on the computer that y…

> The point of the Framework is to run Linux Until recently they've been almost as second-class-Linux-to-Windows as say Dell, but perhaps you just meant 'non-macOS'? (For example, I'm currently struggling to get my early-days pre-ordered 11th gen Intel BIOS updated from v3.07 without a) the official Windows updater; b) modifying the supplied firmware on the instruction of AI or stranger third-parties in unmerged PRs/…

I'm just one datapoint, but my Framework 16 (bought a little over a year ago with no OS, has only ever had Linux installed on it) has never given me trouble with firmware updates. I've updated the BIOS twice, and other firmware, all through `fwupdmgr` with no issues. I bought the AMD chip rather than Intel, it's possible that that was why I had no issues, but I don't actually know.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#395

Post by itsdesmond »

mzajc wrote: post #368
olcay_ wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not what they're saying at all.

The reply was likely referencing Apple's infamous "You're holding it wrong"[0] rebuttal to design flaw criticism - as in, that's what Apple would say if you contacted them. [0]: https://archive.is/jt9rD

Right, but it wasn’t at all relevant.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#396

Post by luipugs »

hparadiz wrote: post #200
wat10000 wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Buy this computer, it's several generations behind and a bunch of stuff doesn't work" is not a ringing endorsement, even if it does work well enough for you.

I still do all my work on an M1 MBP ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Same. If not for the required hardware refresh in our company I would have used it until it broke.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#397

Post by chadgpt3 »

itsdesmond wrote: post #395
mzajc wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reply was likely referencing Apple's infamous "You're holding it wrong"[0] rebuttal to design flaw criticism - as in, that's what Apple would say if you contacted them. [0]: https://archive.is/jt9rD

Right, but it wasn’t at all relevant.

[flagged]

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#398

Post by myself248 »

robspairpears wrote: post #87

Bought the Framework 12 as my personal daily driver (limited hobby projects, Obsidian, light browsing) and for the hardware to grow with my use cases. So even if I could get more bang for my buck with a Neo (yeah, I could), the tinkerability and repairability win over raw specs for what I actually use it for. Did I pay more for a less polished, less powerful machine? Yep. Is it enjoyable to use and fully capable of m…

Precisely this. It's not the fastest machine, but it's not the slowest, and that's more than adequate for other factors to tip the scale.

And I VERY much want to encourage this approach. Laptops COULD be as modular as desktops, and they've proven it with a real machine, not a toy, not a gimmick, not a compliance-car. A genuinely useful piece of hardware that I've been daily-driving for almost 2 years now.

I very much believe in putting my money where my mouth is.

Would I go back to another laptop? Well, if someone else starts making motherboards that'll drop into this chassis, I'd consider it...

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#399

Post by ramijames »

cardanome wrote: post #213
benoau wrote: post #101

As nice as Apple's hardware is it's all undermined by who they are as a company, intentionally limiting their devices more and more while they relentlessly argue in courts and to regulators that we owe them more and more for using our devices. Rosetta 2's retirement announcement was when I realized I won't buy another Mac, I'm not interested in a computer that is preoccupied with stopping me from running software. Wo…

That is all true but even as a hardcore Linux and Thinkpad user, I have to admit it is a hard sell when no one can offer the quality of Apple. Apple is the only hardware company where you can buy a product and it is good hardware wise. Sure other companies have flagship offerings but with apple you get a really good base model. And that is where it breaks down for me. Pay 20% more for freedom? Yes, absolutely. But pa…

I think that people aren't seeing what Apple is doing through the lens of efficiency, and the wider impact that has on their software and hardware.

Them not having to support 30+ year old software means that they can be more nimble and make better hardware choices.

Look at the mess that Microsoft has made for itself by setting the requirement that software made in the 90s must still run on modern OSs and hardware. It's bonkers and is slowly killing the company.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#400

Post by makeitdouble »

blazarquasar wrote: post #378
makeitdouble wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's still a 6 on the scale, and parts pairing, third party restrictions are still in place. For reference, the latest Thinkpad T series is 10/10, so a better build is clearly possible. It is actually bad. Not as bad as previous models, but still bad.

That may be true, but a MacBook is still better value for your money than any of the new Thinkpads, performance and build-quality wise.

What's your universal "value for money" index that should apply to everyone ?

For instance why should a touch support or better port selection be less valuable to me than let's say battery life ? Does supporting multiple OSes have a defined value to money ratio that I'm not aware of ?

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