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It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

jeffgeerling.com

361–370 of 695 posts

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#361
post #249

> I had already put both laptops through my benchmark gauntlet Who needs to justify it? I make good money, fell in love with the Framework 12 at first sight, maxed it out with 64GiB RAM and 2TB SSD, and never even thought about “comparing” it to other companies' machines before buying. Something about that being a thief of joy? :p Peep my one-wire desk setup, and that awesome tablet mode: https://ibb.co/album/1YGRfh

Two vertical displays are awesome.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#362
post #101

As nice as Apple's hardware is it's all undermined by who they are as a company, intentionally limiting their devices more and more while they relentlessly argue in courts and to regulators that we owe them more and more for using our devices. Rosetta 2's retirement announcement was when I realized I won't buy another Mac, I'm not interested in a computer that is preoccupied with stopping me from running software. Wo…

That is all true but even as a hardcore Linux and Thinkpad user, I have to admit it is a hard sell when no one can offer the quality of Apple. Apple is the only hardware company where you can buy a product and it is good hardware wise. Sure other companies have flagship offerings but with apple you get a really good base model. And that is where it breaks down for me. Pay 20% more for freedom? Yes, absolutely. But pa…

ThinkPad X1 from 2 years ago was very solid and under Fedora everything but camera worked out of the box. And for camera issue I had to blame myself for not checking details of a specific model as Lenovo was offering at that time fully-Linux compatible model. It took about one and halve year before Linux fully supported it. And I already upgraded SSD on it which took less than 10 minutes.

The only complain is bad battery life. With several VMs running mostly idle it doesn’t lasts even two hours. But then I used beefy MacBook M2 at my previous work and with VMs it lasted only 4 hours.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My Mac Mini M4 has a distasteful smell when I pin in with AI prompts. And MacOS isn’t super great either. The Remote Desktop options suck and if I leave mine running for a week it can’t function without a reboot. The tech industry might actually be worse than it was 20 years ago.

I can almost excuse Apple for not being concerned about the relatively niche “mac as a server” use case. The thing that boggles my mind is how their keyboard and autocorrect experience get steadily worse with each release. This is the primary way to interact with their flagship device—the thing that generates an enormous share of their revenue. Why go out of your way to make that worse?

100% I’ve used iPhone voice dictation for years. My voice has r changed, but its speech to text makes me sound like a stroke victim. AutoCorrect is not quite as bad, but it’s definitely regressed over the years.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#364
post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- "Let’s not forget that Apple advertises paid subscriptions in notifications and settings pane alerts when you first buy the computer." I've literally never seen an advert outside of a 3rd party app or website on any Apple device I've owned (many).

When you buy a new Apple device it comes with a trial for Apple subscription services. My iPhone 17 Pro came with a News+ trial. If I didn’t cancel it it would charge me. There was no way to turn off auto-renew without forfeiting the remaining trial period, which is a dark pattern to encourage accidental payments. Mac devices also encourage things like documents in iCloud directly in settings which encourage migratio…

> If I didn’t cancel it it would charge me.

This is absolutely, completely false. Apple devices do not come subscribed to things that will charge you if you don’t cancel. Don’t be silly.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#365
post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should try Linux on it someday, to really see what the CPU can do, night and day difference :) With that said, I'd probably prefer a Windows laptop over a MacBook too, their hardware is great, but the software is just so awful. But whatever you do, don't get Microsoft's hardware, I got a Surface Pro 8 some years ago and throughout my ~25 years of computing I've never had a worse laptop, and just 2-3 weeks after t…

Unfortubately Qualcomm killed open source support efforts for Snapdragon X*

When did that happen?

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other day i saw a slick scifi movie and really liked the interface in one of the random background terminals. I thought id recreate a working version of it. I snapped a screenshot on my iphone where i was watching, but lo it was blacked out? Same after several attempts. Ugh fine, go to my macbook, fire up netflix in a browser there, screenshot from desktop. Nope. Still blacked out. Its not just older architecture…

Is this just "Person discovers DRM, c. 2026" dressed up as a complaint about Apple?

That's a bit disingenuous isn't it? Being unable to use any screenshot tool to capture an image on my laptop's browser was surprising to me, yes. Or are you arguing that Apple's implementations are no more restrictive than on any linux machine, so as such there is no case to be made for anything DRM related that a non-Apple device is superior (less limiting) in any way? Or... I suppose what is your actual argument here?

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#367
So with the Framework you're paying a premium for maintainability. When the specs fall behind you can upgrade easily. With Apple you have a good laptop that will last awhile assuming you take very good care of it. And, of course, you can't upgrade or maintain it easily.

I can't say I agree with the thesis at all. With unstable hardware prices and leveling performance improvements, flexibility is becoming a far more important goal.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#368
post #341
post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

That's not what they're saying at all.

The reply was likely referencing Apple's infamous "You're holding it wrong"[0] rebuttal to design flaw criticism - as in, that's what Apple would say if you contacted them.

[0]: https://archive.is/jt9rD

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#369
Bad timing. Not only MB Neo, but also the memory price hike. Whole selling point is vanishing, plus other makers are getting momentum reacting to Neo, further shadowing the FW12's existence.

I hope they can come back with some update with newer chipset, either from Intel or Qualcomm. They were picking the worst Intel generation and I think it was mostly bad luck.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#370
post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know nothing about this, but they do seem to have a gamepad: https://frame.work/products/8bitdo-ultimate-2c-wireless-cont...

it's an 8BitDo product in the Framework store that wasn't designed or manufactured by Framework

Right, so it's the same problems as any other third party gamepad.

You can see the frustration in this LinusTechTips DIY build your own steam machine video: https://youtu.be/2psXxetNpoo?t=1250

You can see he's actually using a 8bitDo controller like you shared, but it doesn't have the firmware to talk directly to his computer, which then needs to have the correct CEC codes for HDMI to tell the different TVs to turn on/wake up/turn off.

So to make it a media center / steam machine you need to manufacture + firmware both the controller and the PC, which is the GH ticket above (i think!). But since they didn't make the controller, it would then be on users for each third party to figure out how to connect to whatever Framework exposes. Overall, just much better to make and ship the controllers & computer together, which is why Steam is going to do so well.

edit: Half that was directed towards the person who shared the controller, ;)

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