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GTA 6 Developers Unionize

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Re: GTA 6 Developers Unionize

#231

Post by zipy124 »

netcoyote wrote: post #229
zipy124 wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Margins are high. The video game market makes twice the combined revenue of all film/music markets combined.

revenue != margins There are 20,000 games released per year that split all that revenue, minus the cost of building those games.

My point was we know those are decent margin industries and video games aren't any more expensive, but anyway you usually look at 20% margin in the industry give or take 10% depending on the scale and particularly advertising costs at large scales.

Re: GTA 6 Developers Unionize

#232

Post by RobRivera »

sonzohan wrote: post #177
WarmWash wrote: post #4

Can anyone comment on why "big video game" dev pay has lagged "big tech" pay so badly? Ostensibly they are doing remarkably similar engineering problem solving, so why is there such a disparity?

Game dev here, have worked on AAA and indie. First off let me get on my high horse and say the engineering in video gaming is generally more complex than the engineering I've done working in big tech. You need a lot more creativity and ingenuity to solve the unusual problems you run into in gaming. From there, as others have said, it's a simple supply and demand issue. Nowadays I am a university professor, nearly eve…

What was your route to teaching like? I kinda am considering putting my hat in a similar ring on a part time, evening class type basis if I can get away with it.

Re: GTA 6 Developers Unionize

#233

Post by antiframe »

zipy124 wrote: post #218
Negitivefrags wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People haven’t responded to your very first point, and I want to really stress it because I don’t think most people really get it. Margins. Game development doesn’t pay more because game development companies can’t afford to pay more. Sure, an individual game dev company may make a lot due to the hit driven nature of the field, but the totality of the market simply makes less money per developer than big tech does. I…

Margins are high. The video game market makes twice the combined revenue of all film/music markets combined.

What does revenue have to do with margins. You didn't mention costs anywhere in your statement.

Re: GTA 6 Developers Unionize

#234

Post by tcfhgj »

yCombLinks wrote: post #37
agentgt wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it is mostly just margins. Sure there are lots of people willing to work for no very little money for game dev but I would say there are tons of people willing to work for very little money for FAANG companies because they want that on their resume. In fact since we are on hackernews that is kind of thing people wanting to be entrepreneurs do. Work at recognizable big tech company for a few years. Leave to be…

They want it on their resume primarily to make more money and have a better career in terms of getting hired, etc. Very different motivation. They'd only work at a FAANG for free long enough to get that bump. Game devs however would work for many years underpaid because they like what they're creating.

sounds very much like open source maintainers too

Re: GTA 6 Developers Unionize

#235

Post by varispeed »

sonzohan wrote: post #177
WarmWash wrote: post #4

Can anyone comment on why "big video game" dev pay has lagged "big tech" pay so badly? Ostensibly they are doing remarkably similar engineering problem solving, so why is there such a disparity?

Game dev here, have worked on AAA and indie. First off let me get on my high horse and say the engineering in video gaming is generally more complex than the engineering I've done working in big tech. You need a lot more creativity and ingenuity to solve the unusual problems you run into in gaming. From there, as others have said, it's a simple supply and demand issue. Nowadays I am a university professor, nearly eve…

I'd say it has nothing to do with supply and demand, but more to do with captive labour market (e.g. in the UK ability to quit and run own business are limited) and C-suite greed levels and classism.

Working class person being exceptional at low latency game development, will unlikely get a chance in finance and earning 10x for very much the same level of competence, because their accent might not be good enough and parents don't frequent members' clubs.

Re: GTA 6 Developers Unionize

#236

Post by standardly »

OsrsNeedsf2P wrote: post #150
standardly wrote: post #113

happy for them but uh.. 2028 release confirmed lol

Good. I want them to take their time, pour their craft and passion into it, and release something amazing.

Yeah, same. I'd rather wait for a better game made by happier devs. The studio is just notorious for crunch and failing to adhere to release dates, so i was just stating the obvious

Re: GTA 6 Developers Unionize

#237

Post by __natty__ »

> Together, we are organising around the things we want to change. Starting with: Pay transparency Flexible working An end to crunch

That’s a lot of demands, what next? Competitive salary?! /sarcasm

I hope more people will start fighting together for better work conditions. Company owners have money and lawyers so workers must unite to fight them back. I’m saying this as employer.

Re: GTA 6 Developers Unionize

#238

Post by antiframe »

charcircuit wrote: post #105
slg wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All else being equal, the cooler a job is, the less it will pay. It's why unions have been so successful in other "cool jobs" like professional athlete and working on movies and TV. There are some people who would do those jobs for free which completely destroys the market power of most individuals requiring collective action to prevent exploitation.

Working for the amount of money one agrees to is not exploitation.

That would be true if there weren't a power and information imbalance.

Re: GTA 6 Developers Unionize

#240

Post by wahnfrieden »

charcircuit wrote: post #184
wahnfrieden wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope you tip your earnings back to corporate and organize your peers to suppress your wages

I do a personal stock buy back which applies upward pressure to the stock price. I don't organize to suppress wages due to wanting to avoid the secondary effects of driving away good talent.

Doesn't sound like the talent is very good if they are not so mission-driven to donate their wages to shareholders.

You want to surround yourself with peers who negotiate for as high pay as the market will bear? That sounds like a sacrifice of shareholder value for selfish cause. Just because workers have leverage doesn't mean they should use it against shareholders.

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