It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12 • Hacker News Board

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#191

Post by bhouston » Fri, May 29, 2026, 7:00 PM UTC

866-RON-0-FEZ wrote: post #147

whimblepop wrote: post #83

I was seduced by Apple Silicon after experiencing the exceptional battery life and performance. Those things are great, as are the screens and the speakers. But I'm still excited about the Framework 12 because I don't love macOS. I don't need an alternative to beat Apple on every line of the spec sheet. I just need them to align with my values, support Linux well, and cross a certain "good enough" threshold. The late…

M-series MacBooks stink, literally. [1] My newest MacBook reeks of strong adhesive from the vents. Googling revealed hundreds of similar complaints, it's allegedly a solvent they use, perhaps flux. I thought it was the battery. Many claim "they all smell like that". Some (insane) people like the smell, I assume they sniffed glue as kids. Unfortunately it's the last one I buy. I won't tolerate a smelly laptop. [1] htt…

> M-series MacBooks stink

I've been around a lot of modern MacBooks both in my company and I've also owned a bunch, none of them stunk.

I think this is a rare issue. At least it is lower than 1/20, if not much much lower.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#192

Post by culopatin » Fri, May 29, 2026, 7:01 PM UTC

866-RON-0-FEZ wrote: post #147

whimblepop wrote: post #83

I was seduced by Apple Silicon after experiencing the exceptional battery life and performance. Those things are great, as are the screens and the speakers. But I'm still excited about the Framework 12 because I don't love macOS. I don't need an alternative to beat Apple on every line of the spec sheet. I just need them to align with my values, support Linux well, and cross a certain "good enough" threshold. The late…

M-series MacBooks stink, literally. [1] My newest MacBook reeks of strong adhesive from the vents. Googling revealed hundreds of similar complaints, it's allegedly a solvent they use, perhaps flux. I thought it was the battery. Many claim "they all smell like that". Some (insane) people like the smell, I assume they sniffed glue as kids. Unfortunately it's the last one I buy. I won't tolerate a smelly laptop. [1] htt…

A few*. I have 4 at home and none smell

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#193

Post by Rohansi » Fri, May 29, 2026, 7:01 PM UTC

hparadiz wrote: post #164

wat10000 wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost everything, and that's already three generations behind.

I don't really need USB-C displays or Thunderbolt for my use case. The touch ID is easily replaced with a Yubikey. Everything else just works. What is the problem?

Sounds great for you! What about everyone else?

Many people prefer to get new devices so that they can be covered by Apple Care. That completely removes Linux as an option because Asahi Linux never supports any of the recent models.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#194

Post by andrepd » Fri, May 29, 2026, 7:02 PM UTC

I sincerely don't get the point of a post like this. You buy a Framework for repairability, flawless Linux support, ability to tinker, etc. Yes it would be extra nice if on top of everything it also had a faster CPU and a higher-density screen for cheaper than the aggressively priced entry model of corporation with the literal deepest pockets in the world. But is that a realistic complaint? I swear I don't get it.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#195

Post by bhouston » Fri, May 29, 2026, 7:03 PM UTC

LarsDu88 wrote: post #97

bhouston wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> CPU, GPU, and even DRAM sitting on the same "die" This is actually great. The laptop body stays the same and you swap out a small mini circuit board that has the CPU + GPU + DRAM on it. This is the point of the Framework laptops. They are just unfortunately stuck with non-Apple parts and thus are slow / inefficient. Maybe Qualcomm can make a motherboard for Framework high end laptops with their Snapdragon X2 Elite…

Funny thing is, the circuit board on the Neo is barely smaller than that of the lowest end iPhone. The only remaining big cost item swappable item at that point is the display. The benefits of modularity begin to get outweighed by the costs when 85% of the cost of the machine needs to be swapped out with each upgrade. For consumers, why would they not simply opt to spend the rest of the 15% to get a whole new compute…

Yes, the CPU+GPU+Memory is fused but the rest of it doesn't have to be. These are still separable components and they do cost something:

- NVMe drive (or two)

- Bright, wide gamut, high resolution screen

- Aluminum case

- Great keyboard

- Wifi/ports

- Battery

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#196

Post by solomonb » Fri, May 29, 2026, 7:05 PM UTC

I would be interested in hearing from framework users who have gone through upgrade cycles on their laptops. General experiences with the process but also the costs.

I had the first gen framework but had to return it to my old employer so I never went through an upgrade cycle.

Also, this may be specific to the first generation but I had terrible battery life and overheating issues. If that carried over through upgrade cycles I would be pretty bummed out.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#197

Post by wat10000 » Fri, May 29, 2026, 7:05 PM UTC

hparadiz wrote: post #164

wat10000 wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost everything, and that's already three generations behind.

I don't really need USB-C displays or Thunderbolt for my use case. The touch ID is easily replaced with a Yubikey. Everything else just works. What is the problem?

"Buy this computer, it's several generations behind and a bunch of stuff doesn't work" is not a ringing endorsement, even if it does work well enough for you.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#198

Post by andrepd » Fri, May 29, 2026, 7:06 PM UTC

idle_zealot wrote: post #184

LarsDu88 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny thing is, the circuit board on the Neo is barely smaller than that of the lowest end iPhone. The only remaining big cost item swappable item at that point is the display. The benefits of modularity begin to get outweighed by the costs when 85% of the cost of the machine needs to be swapped out with each upgrade. For consumers, why would they not simply opt to spend the rest of the 15% to get a whole new compute…

> spend the rest of the 15% to get a whole new computer? I can see why the manufacturer would want this. As a user though why would you? If the rest of the body is familiar and works well, why toss it? Maybe the sentiment springs from the general culture of consumerism and new-is-better thinking, and historically that's been warranted in the consumer electronics space. Most things aren't really like that though. Huma…

This resonates with me. I have changed phones twice in the last 12 years. Some people look at me like I'm crazy.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#199

Post by nickjj » Fri, May 29, 2026, 7:06 PM UTC

You can get a lot of laptop in the ~$700 range if you look beyond Apple and Framework.

I picked up a Nimo N155 for $570 back in September 2025. Today it's $700 due to RAM prices. Its specs are:

15" 1080p IPS display, AMD Ryzen 7 6800H (8 cores / 16 threads), 32 GB of DDR5 RAM, 1 TB NVME SSD with an iGPU Radeon 680M that can use up to 8 GB of memory all wrapped up into a metal case that weighs less than a MBP. It has a nice feeling backlight keyboard and a pretty good track pad. It comes with Windows 11 but it's all compatible with Linux too. Also it comes with a 2 year manufacturer's warranty.

I've been using it quite a bit since I picked it up. Been running Arch Linux on it since day 1 with niri. It's really solid IMO.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#200

Post by hparadiz » Fri, May 29, 2026, 7:07 PM UTC

wat10000 wrote: post #197

hparadiz wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really need USB-C displays or Thunderbolt for my use case. The touch ID is easily replaced with a Yubikey. Everything else just works. What is the problem?

"Buy this computer, it's several generations behind and a bunch of stuff doesn't work" is not a ringing endorsement, even if it does work well enough for you.

I still do all my work on an M1 MBP ¯\_(ツ)_/¯