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It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

jeffgeerling.com

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Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#131

Post by NooneAtAll3 »

Zak wrote: post #105
deng wrote: post #82

Well, if Apple killed it, Lenovo killed it even more. I recently was looking for a laptop for a student. The Lenovo E14 Gen7 is 800 Euros here in Germany (where prices are always higher, the MacBook Neo is 700 Euros), it has 16GB of RAM, 1TB SSD, a 2.8k IPS display, a Intel Ultra5 12core CPU, and it has a repairability score of 9/10 from ifixit. Framework doesn't even come close to that package.

Framework is definitely premium-priced, but I don't think most people are cross-shopping the Framework 12 (a 12" convertible tablet) and the Thinkpad E14 (a 14" dedicated laptop).

so it's competing with Framework 14?

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#132

Post by gorjusborg »

robspairpears wrote: post #87

Bought the Framework 12 as my personal daily driver (limited hobby projects, Obsidian, light browsing) and for the hardware to grow with my use cases. So even if I could get more bang for my buck with a Neo (yeah, I could), the tinkerability and repairability win over raw specs for what I actually use it for. Did I pay more for a less polished, less powerful machine? Yep. Is it enjoyable to use and fully capable of m…

> Came to bikeshed but the video was more nuanced and fair than this title.

Same here. It isn't hard to justify buying something like the Framework 12 in principle.

I have bought multiple Framework computers and I continue to be a fan, not because it is the best in any single category. It is because I want computers to be bought and sold in the vision that the Framework folks seem to have.

When I purchase a Framework I'm not purchasing a single computer. I'm buying a laptop-of-Theseus that I can continue to use throughout the future. When parts get broken, or a fancy new part is better, I buy the parts and upgrade it rather than buy a whole new device.

I also run an operating system that is publicly developed and available.

You won't see these things on a spec sheet or influencer demo.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#133

Post by tencentshill »

benoau wrote: post #101

As nice as Apple's hardware is it's all undermined by who they are as a company, intentionally limiting their devices more and more while they relentlessly argue in courts and to regulators that we owe them more and more for using our devices. Rosetta 2's retirement announcement was when I realized I won't buy another Mac, I'm not interested in a computer that is preoccupied with stopping me from running software. Wo…

When is reasonable to stop supporting a platform that only hinders the user experience? Should they have supported PPC emulation forever? x86 is on the way out in for most consumer devices. Apple is usually a bit early to drop technologies, but still acknowledges and fixes real mistakes (USB-C-only laptops and the associated keyboards) when they impact customer experience.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#134

Post by mixmastamyk »

taude wrote: post #36

I really want a Framework 12, but not in current incarnation. Hoping for an upgrade with aluminum body. I don't mind the pricepoint. But didn't want a plastic notebook at this point. Want a great couch computer for surfing the net, ssh'ing to machines, writing, etc.... What I surprisingly really miss, is my macbook air 11". But probably won't be surprised if I end up with a Framework 13 Pro once they're caught up on…

And Panther Lake or competitive AMD.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panther_Lake_(microprocessor)

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#135

Post by beart »

46493168 wrote: post #116
AshamedCaptain wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why no one buys Windows laptops I guess.

Windows is the most popular OS for laptops in the US precisely because it does what people want for a price they want to pay.

That statement doesn't stand on its own. For example, the most popular OS for laptops at my place of work is Windows. It has very little to do with what people want or price. It has almost everything to do with ecosystem lock in.

A significant portion of windows laptop market share comes from corporate purchases.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#136

Post by mrhottakes »

mingus88 wrote: post #59
gosub100 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't believe the cost of the trash can mac pros. I always wanted one and put it on my long term to-do list, but they're still $500+. Even if they can be had for less, I won't buy one because my tolerance for tinkering has since dwindled. But it's quite a testament that they are still that expensive.

I mean, you have always wanted one. Can you say the same thing about any other PC? You understand the demand for them. It’s you.

Correct, the demand is effectively zero because the people that want them absolutely won't buy them.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#137

Post by drnick1 »

The point of the Framework is to run Linux, and not to be part of Apple's ecosystem. I don't want my computer to update itself without my permission, report telemetry to Apple, upload anything to any "cloud" or request that I log into something. If you don't think this is a big deal, wait until an age or identity verification law is passed somewhere, and Apple will enforce it against your will, on the computer that you bought and thought that you owned.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#138

Post by starkparker »

it remains my pet peeve that the 12 and 13 didn't find a clever way to share a mainboard by ditching the expansion cards on one side and just exposing the USBC ports. I would've sacrificed a lot to be able to just move my mainboard intact to another chassis if I needed the features. (which is exactly what I'll be doing with the 13 Pro, and IMO should've been a top goal of the 12)

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#139

Post by fivetomidnight »

robspairpears wrote: post #87

Bought the Framework 12 as my personal daily driver (limited hobby projects, Obsidian, light browsing) and for the hardware to grow with my use cases. So even if I could get more bang for my buck with a Neo (yeah, I could), the tinkerability and repairability win over raw specs for what I actually use it for. Did I pay more for a less polished, less powerful machine? Yep. Is it enjoyable to use and fully capable of m…

You could get 4 Lenovo X280 if you just need an overpowered notepad.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#140

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 »

benoau wrote: post #120
tobinfricke wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it feasible to run Linux on the Apple hardware? Seems like that could meet your requirements, except possibly "align with my values." I saw https://asahilinux.org/ but don't know how usable it is, or whether the long battery life and hardware support is preserved.

Every generation of Mac has its own requirements that Asahi has to support through a painstaking process of reverse-engineering, so it lags behind quite a bit. Realistically it will probably be 2030 before you can use it on any current-generation Mac.

It's irritating to see it constantly recommended as a real option.
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