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GTA 6 Developers Unionize

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Re: GTA 6 Developers Unionize

#51

Post by elefanten »

well_ackshually wrote: post #42
diath wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has not lagged behind depending on how you look at it, video game development can be split into engine programming and gameplay programming. For engine programming, you only need a handful of senior engineers specializing in low level details of a video game engine, and these will get paid high appropriate wages that match industry standard salaries. For the gameplay programmers, they just seek the cheapest labor…

Nope. Rendering, tooling, audio, core engine... None of these pay particularly well. More than just gameplay programmer, sure, but because many engines have moved to a visual node style of programming, it's also less and less programming in the gameplay department. >there's a large pool of juniors/interns that will accept these low wages just because they want to be a part of something popular. That's an unbelievably…

I think by “something popular” gp meant an industry that people are excited to be in — which dovetails with your implication about accepting low pay for a way in the industry

Re: GTA 6 Developers Unionize

#52

Post by IshKebab »

rowanG077 wrote: post #30
diath wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has not lagged behind depending on how you look at it, video game development can be split into engine programming and gameplay programming. For engine programming, you only need a handful of senior engineers specializing in low level details of a video game engine, and these will get paid high appropriate wages that match industry standard salaries. For the gameplay programmers, they just seek the cheapest labor…

But don't bad gameplay programmers implement gameplay badly? If that is truly the state of the industry that explains all the modern games with extremely mushy controls.

I assume by gameplay he means stuff like in game scripting - when you walk here it triggers this. Mushy controls would be down to the engine developers.

Re: GTA 6 Developers Unionize

#53

Post by pawelduda »

LPisGood wrote: post #24
flohofwoe wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Modern AAA video game development has much more in common with a traditional factory assembly line than a typical tech startup (for better or worse) - or maybe movie production is an even better comparison (especially now where most of the production seems to happen 'in post'). Also VC doesn't seem to be all that interested in investing into game dev companies, I guess because it's such an extreme hit-and-miss busine…

That’s only true in some instances. Do most AAA titles like Call of Duty, GTA, etc use Unity or Unreal?

There are many studios with their own engines that rival or exceed UE5 - which seems overhyped, because at this point they caught up with graphics fidelity without terrible performance that dread a lot of UE5 titles.

Recent notable example is Crimson Desert, they spent years building their own engine for this game and IMO they raised the bar when it comes to creating a huge realistic world.

Others that come to my mind are Decima and RE Engine.

Re: GTA 6 Developers Unionize

#54

Post by amazingamazing »

HugoTea wrote: post #5

This is great news, unions not only improve working conditions, but also improve the final product by not having underpaid stressed staff with high turn-over. It's a good sign for the future product quality of any company to see workers unionise.

Really? American cars suck compared to japanese and chinese which are not unionized.

What’s an example of a unionized vs non unionized group producing the same thing where unionized is better?

Re: GTA 6 Developers Unionize

#56

Post by jdw64 »

flohofwoe wrote: post #33
LPisGood wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s only true in some instances. Do most AAA titles like Call of Duty, GTA, etc use Unity or Unreal?

In the last few years the pendulum has been swinging back from inhouse engine to Unreal Engine. There are a couple of holdouts, but my guess is that the majority of AAA games currently released are back on UE - at least it feels that way ;) And Unity always ruled supreme for AA and mobile games.

I heard a great perspective on this from a Chinese developer. The reliance on outsourced engines like Unity or Unreal isn't just driven by the high costs of in-house development and yearly upgrades. The real issue is career mobility.

Knowledge of a proprietary engine is completely locked to that specific company. They pointed out that Unity and Unreal became industry standards simply because of the dynamics of changing jobs. I fully agree with that assessment.

Re: GTA 6 Developers Unionize

#58

Post by squigz »

amazingamazing wrote: post #54
HugoTea wrote: post #5

This is great news, unions not only improve working conditions, but also improve the final product by not having underpaid stressed staff with high turn-over. It's a good sign for the future product quality of any company to see workers unionise.

Really? American cars suck compared to japanese and chinese which are not unionized. What’s an example of a unionized vs non unionized group producing the same thing where unionized is better?

Is there any reason to believe North American cars wouldn't be even worse if there weren't unions?

Re: GTA 6 Developers Unionize

#60

Post by simonjgreen »

WarmWash wrote: post #4

Can anyone comment on why "big video game" dev pay has lagged "big tech" pay so badly? Ostensibly they are doing remarkably similar engineering problem solving, so why is there such a disparity?

You could invert this question and it would be equally valid.

The question is why the gulf, rather than why the lag. Why is big tech pay so high?

When you compare it to other trades and industries video game dev pay is much more “normal”

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