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It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

jeffgeerling.com

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Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#11

Post by GeekyBear »

> the Mac is faster (in most cases), more efficient, quieter, built better, has a much nicer display, and costs much less.

The Framework is more expensive, slower (in most cases), louder (its fan ramps up quite often), has a pretty poor display, but it is a touchscreen, has a 360° hinge, and is more repairable and upgradeable.

https://www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/2026/its-hard-to-justify-f...

The thing I was not expecting was that the Intel i3 was not that far ahead on sustained loads, even with the fan at 100%.

> there's one performance-related area where the Framework pulls ahead—a little

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#13

Post by Aurornis »

afavour wrote: post #3

Eh, I think the framing isn't quite right here. The Neo is a wonderful machine but if you want to upgrade it you're out of luck, the damn thing is sealed shut. By comparison the Framework lets you upgrade individual components over time to keep your system up to date without buying a whole new one. Maybe that doesn't matter for the godson. But it's an important differentiator: the Framework is a (semi) premium produc…

> The Neo is a wonderful machine but if you want to upgrade it you're out of luck, the damn thing is sealed shut. By comparison the Framework lets you upgrade individual components over time to keep your system up to date

The Framework 12 in the story costs $799, a $300 premium over the $499 MacBook Neo.

So you're paying an extra $300 up front for the option of spending more to upgrade it in the future, and getting a slower computer during that time.

That's a 60% premium to have the ability to upgrade a slower laptop.

Alternatively, they could sell the MacBook Neo for $200 in a couple years and buy a next-gen MacBook Neo and they'd still come out ahead.

Some people value upgradeability to an extreme, but I can't see a justification for spending a 60% premium to buy a worse product just to be able to maybe upgrade it in a few years. This is a starter laptop.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#16

Post by topaz0 »

quentindanjou wrote: post #4
afavour wrote: post #3

Eh, I think the framing isn't quite right here. The Neo is a wonderful machine but if you want to upgrade it you're out of luck, the damn thing is sealed shut. By comparison the Framework lets you upgrade individual components over time to keep your system up to date without buying a whole new one. Maybe that doesn't matter for the godson. But it's an important differentiator: the Framework is a (semi) premium produc…

That might be true to some extent but what about the current product? It's nice to tell yourself that you can upgrade it in the future but the best of what the product is today isn't a great value, will the future upgrade make it better? Should we purchase a product today on what it might be tomorrow? I think Jeff is correct when he says, "for an overall worse experience, are you willing to pay 20-40% more?". That's…

I don't think the idea is that the upgrade will take it from decent to stellar compared to other things you might be able to buy for the same money, it's about paying a bit extra now to be able to go from decent-in-2026 to decent-in-2031 while paying a fraction of the cost that you would buying a full replacement in 2031, not to mention saving a bunch of waste. And then in 2036, and 2041, and 2046... They haven't been around long enough to be confident it'll work out that way, but that's the bet in my mind.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#17

Post by simjnd »

afavour wrote: post #3

Eh, I think the framing isn't quite right here. The Neo is a wonderful machine but if you want to upgrade it you're out of luck, the damn thing is sealed shut. By comparison the Framework lets you upgrade individual components over time to keep your system up to date without buying a whole new one. Maybe that doesn't matter for the godson. But it's an important differentiator: the Framework is a (semi) premium produc…

I think this model works for the 13 and 16, because you're already buying a good laptop that you can keep longer by upgrading. The 12's base specs and more than that the experience is pretty bad. The screen and speakers are terrible.

The 13 also targets people buying it for themselves and who value ownership. The 12 targets the education market and how many 14 year olds are sensitive to ownership, repairability and e-waste? If they are they would probably get something better second hand. You'd have to have a parent that is sensitive to this issue and is also willing to force down this bad laptop onto their children instead of whatever they prefer.

I love Framework, and the bet to try to win over the education market was worth making but the execution is so poor that I don't think it works out.

The MacBook Neo will happily last you the 4 years of highschool and maybe your bachelor.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#18

Post by Aurornis »

I love that Framework exists and I hope they succeed.

I have been recommending them to friends and family who are looking for Windows or Linux laptops, though with some reservations due to the problems with a couple of their models.

However I don't see the value in the Framework 12 over a MacBook Neo if someone isn't choosing by OS first. The $499 MacBook Neo is just so good for the price and so well built. The $499 price is the education price, which is relevant for the student in the story.

The upgradeability is a benefit of the Framework 12, but look at the premium you pay for that option: $799 versus $499 is a 60% premium paid up front. You could sell the MacBook Neo for $200 in a couple years and buy a next-generation MacBook Neo for probably a very similar financial to buying the Framework 12 and not upgrading it.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#19

Post by dheera »

GeekyBear wrote: post #11

> the Mac is faster (in most cases), more efficient, quieter, built better, has a much nicer display, and costs much less. The Framework is more expensive, slower (in most cases), louder (its fan ramps up quite often), has a pretty poor display, but it is a touchscreen, has a 360° hinge, and is more repairable and upgradeable. https://www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/2026/its-hard-to-justify-f... The thing I was not expecti…

> has a pretty poor display

Framework 13 has a very good display while 12 has a crappy display.

If I was buying a new laptop the Framework 12 seems like a really nice portable form factor but the crappy screen of the 12 would hold me back.

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