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Where are the economies of scale in homebuilding?

construction-physics.com

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Re: Where are the economies of scale in homebuilding?

#111

Post by bluGill »

bombcar wrote: post #71
bluGill wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They really can't because all the things where scale would apply is already standardized. You buy 2x4's in the 92 and 5/8's length. And you put it up and that makes your 8 foot wall after adding the top and bottom plates. We laugh about how a 2x4 isn't really a 2x4 but that doesn't matter because the important part is it's a standard dimension you can get from anyone and so the people who make them already have the s…

I've always dreamed of a house designed to minimize cuts; walls exactly the right length to use full sheets of drywall, etc. The reality: it wouldn't save hardly anything, tradesmen are good at what they do.

In reality your 10 foot 2x4 is an inch or two longer than 10 feet long. Cutting a few two length isn't where the time goes since tradesmen have saws to do in in a few seconds and most boards are not cut.

I did work construction - we did one house with 10 foot walls and cutting the studs to length cost a lot of time, but that was one house out of the 50 or so that I worked on

Re: Where are the economies of scale in homebuilding?

#112

Post by bluGill »

dlcarrier wrote: post #103
Markoff wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if someone explained to them difference in heating/cooling expenses + how much the extra 30-50 cm adds also to construction materials

Going from 8 ft to 9 ft ceilings adds 12.5% more volume. For an 1,800 square foot house, in a 30x60 ft form factor, that increases the surface area exposed to outside air by 5.55%. This would create a small increase in the heating and cooling price per square foot, but a similar decrease in the cost per cubic foot.

You missed something important: many people are moving from a much older house with poor insulation. They can double their surface area and yet see their HVAC bills go down by a lot because modern houses are so much better.

Re: Where are the economies of scale in homebuilding?

#113

Post by bluGill »

Markoff wrote: post #96
nradov wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People like to live in nice homes and the cost difference is tiny over the life of the structure.

construction cost maybe, heating/cool expenses difference won't be so tiny, quite the opposite and it's not only about expenses, lower ceiling is also faster to cool/heat, so you have to wait shorter time I can really understand high ceiling (in new residential buildings) only for people who use fake built-in second floor (dunno the word in English, maybe mezzanine by my quick research) for like bed or something, but…

In a modern house insulation is very good (in general) and so your heating cooling expenses are not that high over a lifetime.

Re: Where are the economies of scale in homebuilding?

#114

Post by narnarpapadaddy »

shaewest wrote: post #5
NooneAtAll3 wrote: post #3

I wonder, have vertical integration been tried yet? As in, do any builder companies own forestries, or maybe cement or steel mills?

I would assume the issue there would be transport. It'd be cheaper to use "local cement maker X" than to ship from "remote cheap cement maker Y"

In the case of concrete there’s also a time component. Once you mix the cement and aggregate you have a few hours before it begins to set. The cement itself is already typically trucked in (a relatively small amount of dry, easily transportable powder).

Re: Where are the economies of scale in homebuilding?

#115

Post by Markoff »

bluGill wrote: post #113
Markoff wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

construction cost maybe, heating/cool expenses difference won't be so tiny, quite the opposite and it's not only about expenses, lower ceiling is also faster to cool/heat, so you have to wait shorter time I can really understand high ceiling (in new residential buildings) only for people who use fake built-in second floor (dunno the word in English, maybe mezzanine by my quick research) for like bed or something, but…

In a modern house insulation is very good (in general) and so your heating cooling expenses are not that high over a lifetime.

So you are telling me cooling down or heating bigger volume of air takes same amount of energy/money than smaller volume?

Re: Where are the economies of scale in homebuilding?

#116

Post by nradov »

Markoff wrote: post #96
nradov wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People like to live in nice homes and the cost difference is tiny over the life of the structure.

construction cost maybe, heating/cool expenses difference won't be so tiny, quite the opposite and it's not only about expenses, lower ceiling is also faster to cool/heat, so you have to wait shorter time I can really understand high ceiling (in new residential buildings) only for people who use fake built-in second floor (dunno the word in English, maybe mezzanine by my quick research) for like bed or something, but…

I always find in funny when NH users try to claim that consumers like the wrong things.

Re: Where are the economies of scale in homebuilding?

#117

Post by pfdietz »

Animats wrote: post #98
pfdietz wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It suggests we need to find cheaper materials from which to build homes.

Most of the world builds low-end homes from reinforced concrete. Most US buyers don't like that. (I live in a house built from cinder blocks filled with concrete and rebar, like a commercial building. It was built by a commercial builder as his own house. It looks industrial from the outside, and nice inside. I'm fine with that, but most people are not.)

The underlying problem, I think, is that homes are used as displays of wealth. Veblen goods.

Re: Where are the economies of scale in homebuilding?

#119

Post by NoGravitas »

wanoir wrote: post #14

One thing that can’t be scaled is “prime location” There will be locations that are more desirable than others, and even if you keep building houses where there’s space, the need to congregate in particular areas (such as for work) will result in particular locations being more desirable. And, it’s hard to increase the density of an area once the housing supply is already built out. So instead, that supply stays fixe…

Public transit is one thing that could help. Another is a land value tax, which would incentivize density in places with rising demand.

Re: Where are the economies of scale in homebuilding?

#120

Post by NoGravitas »

dlcarrier wrote: post #101
taneq wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

3D printing isn’t going to make houses hugely much cheaper. The lion’s share of the cost of a house is fit-out. Doors, windows, lighting, plumbing, cabinets, tiling, painting. What needs to happen is modular designs where the house is made out of standardised ready-made components that are mass produced in a factory and plug together to form a finished house.

I've never understood why we go through so much work, to coat the interior of our houses with easily damaged and difficult to repair materials. Who thought it was a good idea to compress dust between sheets of paper, nail it to the framing, then spray a texture onto it with more dust, and color that with a film of plastic that's cured in place, so it needs multiple coats to be thick enough to provide a consistent col…

It's because it's cheaper up-front.
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